You Can't Slap The Stupid Away (spanking -> lower IQ)

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by ninefivezero, Sep 25, 2009.

  1. ninefivezero

    ninefivezero infinite resolution

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    How many people here who criticized this do you think read the actual article?

    (I was commenting on the thread in general, not you specifically)
  2. MSP

    MSP Haunting a dead forum...

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    Well, admittedly it's probably pretty low.

    For me the most disturbing thing about the article is the bit at the end about all of this ultimately ending in public education and LEGISLATION to outlaw spanking. I mean, c'mon. A 1,500 people study and this guy is ready to make the age old practice illegal...
  3. mistawiskas

    mistawiskas kik n a and takin names

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    It's called "spin". Any results, if not a true scientific, unbiased examination can be spun into any desired conclusion. It would appear to be more political than science.
  4. tweakmonkey

    tweakmonkey Webmaster Staff Member

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    I didn't read the article. I'm not a parent and don't feel it really matters either way to me at this point. If I get a girl pregnant, I promise I will read this article.
  5. ninefivezero

    ninefivezero infinite resolution

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    Ok, so I finally have time to report back:

    To begin, everyone who said they were spanked and turned out fine, congratulations, your experience has absolutely nothing to do with this study! (also, you constitute the majority of Americans)

    Some direct responses:

    No, it is not my area. I am a sociology major, so studies like this are something that I get into, however.

    Also, your idea there is based on the assumption that the IQ drop is permanent, which the study neither supports nor addresses.

    Anecdotal evidence is fine, everyone has their own experience and is welcome to share. But saying "I was spanked and I'm fine" is simply not relevant because it has nothing to do with this study. And if you call something "worthless" but have no evidence for why, you are just name-calling.

    As for the margin of error on IQ tests, the whole point of a controlled sample is that those factors are equal in each group and are thus negated.

    Isn't it amazing, how everyone is above average? :p We must all live in Garrison Keillor's Lake Lake Wobegon!

    I too will jump on this bandwagon, I actually just took some tests today, and scored in the 88th percentile in 'oral comprehension' and the 96th percentile in 'passage comprehension' :p (didn't do so well in two memory tests though :( )Again, this is all completely irrelevant.

    (And FYI, I'm sure the average member of this forum is above average)

    I'm actually not a huge fan of IQ tests either, but while it is an imperfect measure, I'm convinced there isn't and will never be a perfect test.

    First off, it may be uncommon these days, but some people look at the facts first, THEN form opinions, not the other way around...

    Second, the data came from the National Longitudinal Survey of Youth, 1979, not from the author of the study.

    Info on the NLSY79:

    I'm going to sound like a dick here, but that's probably because you don't understand what it is actually talking about.

    Also, "sociology" has a very wide range of formats, methods, purposes, ideas, theories and so on. The funny thing is, more often than not, the data sociological studies rely on comes from large government studies, not independent research. There fore all the data is usually out there, sociologists are just sorting through it all and looking for patterns.

    Obviously I disagree. While in many ways people are strange and hard to understand, at the same time, people are VERY predictable. That is why random sampling works, and works well. If you have EVER seen a poll or survey, if it is done well, it is made to be a representative sample, and congratulations, you have just believed some sociology!

    The fact is, survey methods have gotten VERY good if used properly, and in fact, 'the survey' is the primary tool, developed by sociologist for their work. With that tool, good sociologist utilize the 'scientific method' of research.

    This makes for a decent overview of sociological methods:

    Of for more detail and history, this looks pretty good: SOCIOLOGY AS SCIENCE, Russ Long's Lecture Notes

    Again, I'd like one supported example of how this is the case with the study presented.

    The whole point of academic research is for it to be open and transparent. That is why the study here has a large and detailed 'methods' section, why the data is 100% open for anyone to look at, and why it undergoes peer-review before publication. And finally, the discussion does not stop, anyone is welcome to go over the numbers and check them, or to do their own study to support or contradict the findings here. Not only that, but this research is based on decades of previous research, and the author even cites 50 different sources!

    a;lfja;lkj43;lkaj

    I have a headache, I'm stopping now :p
  6. Coleman

    Coleman fresh off the corner

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    It implies that the IQ is still lower after 10 years of development so I'd say it's pretty clear on where it stands. If it isn't a permanent drop, then what would a little spanking matter?

    It's too much in line with all this babying of children and not letting them make mistakes and scrape their knees. I know I'm making a jump here and opening a whole other can of worms but some kids need to be spanked.

    Besides, this study is suggesting that you were smarter as a child than we were which is offensive. I like to think of myself as the smartest kid alive when I was young and it will stay that way thank you very much.
  7. ninefivezero

    ninefivezero infinite resolution

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    I don't really disagree with that.
  8. GRP

    GRP oh snap

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    *shrugs* I think the big deal is that people are trying to discredit spanking as a legitimate way to punish children. One thing I can safely say is that people do not like being told how to raise their children.
  9. MSP

    MSP Haunting a dead forum...

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    I didn't say it was totally unscientific, just that there's quite a lot of room for subjectivity and manipulation of results. As I believe is the case with this particular study.
  10. mistawiskas

    mistawiskas kik n a and takin names

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    There's a difference between a spanking and a beating. I didn't get spanked, and I took the beatings until i started to "beat" back. Funny thing, the first time I decked my old man, the beatings stopped.