Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by tweakmonkey, Aug 29, 2007.
Did I miss something?
We lost the West? If so I need to start going by my Native American name - Dances With Tequila.
That’s not exactly a fair example. Men are born with a penis for reproductive purposes, its necessary for the survival of humans. At this point in our evolution that is no NEED for guns. With the current state of farming and agriculture humans would be perfectly fine if every single firearm on the plant was destroyed this very second. That said Crime would not stop either, I’d be willing to be that knife and blunt weapon crime statistics would skyrocket.
The problem is not guns, the problem is humanity, as a supposes intelligent species of science we are extremely flawed and stupid. You may believe that as individuals human’s are ultimately good natures but sociology, and history for that matter has proven that if you put us in groups and allow us to use group thinking and the diffusion of responsibility that comes with group decisions that we will always do terrible and evil things to our own benefits and this will ultimately be the fall of man whenever that may happen. Guns won’t cause it, more powerful weapons likely will, but guns will certainly be on the forefront.
To play devils advocate and to illustrate my point lets use your example.
Every woman I know does fear being raped; it’s certainly one of the traumatic things that can happen to a woman.
If a woman is around A male she’s doesn’t know and trust she has to keep her guard up, live with a certain level of fear and be prepared to defense herself, if she is around a fellow female the concern for rape is not their, or at least is greatly, greatly diminished.
Now replace the word Woman with “Human”, Man with “person with Gun” and Female with “person without gun” and rape with “get shot” in the example above and you see the point I’m trying to make.
The differences is again, that we as humans can’t survive if we have no means to reproduce, but we can certainly survives and thrive with one less means to harm ourselves.
The problem does not lie in guns, Take away guns and we will stab people. Cut off our reproductive organs and we will rape woman with our prosthetic turkey baster replacements, the problem lies in humanity and for that I see no solution.
Sims thinks that all Americans are gun carrying assholes a la the "wild wild West" who would shoot him for being an asshole in his car.
Also, ITT, Sim completely misses Joker's satire. (Which just makes Joker's post that much more entertaining)
Sims has made valid points from his last 2 posts. You shouldn't take offence at them as he is from a country that does not let its population legally 'bear arms'. Although that is different from the US he should not be 'beasted' for this.
Sorry, I'll put it a different way. Countries that do not allow people the 'right to bear' arms have a different viewpoint on gun ownership. We are also curious as how people with this right, view this 'right'. We have different views but should not be ridiculed for trying to find out and question the need for such a serious thing as the 'right to bear arms'.
What does ITT mean?
Sims is an outside observer of American society who has formed his own image of the States created out of the perpetuated stereotype that Americans are gun-crazed nuts who will shoot you in the face if you look at us funny.
I don't take offense at his fear of guns or widespread ownership of said guns, but rather I take offense at being labelled as a deranged individual who would kill or seriously harm someone at the drop of a hat. As I pointed out earlier in the thread gun violence and gun ownership are mutually exclusive events in an overwhelming majority of situations.
(ITT=In This Thread)
Perfectly worded, Sims. You are 100% correct. There is enough corruption in the world that I wan tot have the ability to fight back if need be. I will never let myself (or more importantly, my family) go down without a fight to the death. I will never let anyone harm my family without kicking some ass. I know that the chances are pretty good for a lot of heinous crimes to happen. I just don't want to be a helpless victim. Guess it's just self preservation.
Whatever ability’s you have that allow you to read my thoughts are failing you my friend.
I never said American’s were assholes who shoot everyone, you did. I simply stated that I would live in a state of fear if I knew that it was very possible that the crazy guy behind me legally had a gun and a loaded clip, this applies to any part of the world. My point was that I was able to conduct myself the way I did when some roadraging asshole was a foot from my bumper because it’s extremely unlikely that he has anything in his car that I really need to concerned about. I can drive away from a guy and a tire ironed, I can’t drive away from a gun firing on me.
I’d also like to take this time to point out to you that as of about a year ago Canada’s population was aprox. 33,390,141. I represent 1 of those people, and not all of Canada as you seem to be addressing me as. I don’t represent the beliefs of “Canada” I am an individual with my own beliefs and opinions that could differ from other Canadian’s. You should give them the benefit of expressing them before assuming we all follow my point of view.
As far as joker’s comment is concerned, either he was trying to make a legitimate argument which is flawed, or he is unnecessarily belittling a new member who very politely posed a valid question with no way to misinterpret his intent. Either way I disagree with what’s been said.
again your words not mine. Also please stop assuming you know me because you clearly do not. The situation I referred to didn't even happen in America, it happened in Canada! How you take offence and feel label as an American by that is beyond me. I infact enjoy firearms a great deal, hence why I said in my first point that I’m not sure how I feel about this topic, my concern here has nothing to do with American’s but with human’s as a whole(which I’ve made clear) I don’t have a lot of faith in the goodness of Man and I have abit of an issue with American law’s which I would not want to have in Canada for reasons I’ve listed.
The comment of yours that I quoted above exemplifies my point. You stated that your actions would have been more dangerous in the States than in Canada. Quite a few Canadians on here have posted about owning guns so personal gun ownership does exist in your country, this leads to the variable being attitude. I'm not sure why you feel that Americans are more likely to shoot your ass for being retarded than Canadians but it's what I was offended by.
As for the other Canadians on the board, I will absolutely apologize to them if I stereotyped their views with my post. However, with your post and numerous other opinions I've heard from Canadians and former Canadians both online and in person it reflected the views I've heard about America and gun ownership.
As for Joker's post; considering the thread was bumped with a condescending opinion I have no sympathy for the new poster. Joker's point as far as I understood it was that gun ownership isn't necessarily a cause for social delinquency anymore than the ownership of a penis doesn't make one a rapist.
My point exactly.
Well, for one America has more violent crime than Canada does, that could be a reason for the assumption...
Well, we all know stats are bull crap, but the per capita rates aren't that much different. If you normalize the socioeconomic situations of both countries, it's pretty much equal.
Crime seems to be proportional to the distance between the "haves" and "have nots".
Joker... I'm sorry but if you believe that their is per capita the same amount of gun violence in Canada as their is in the US, your incorrect.
Juballharshaw, talk about the pot calling the kettle black. You say Jermoid is condensending with his polite question and your calling me retared in your posts, talking down to me and assuming you know what and how I think.
You insist I’m stereo typing American’s when I say I wouldn’t feel safe living somewhere where just about anyone can own a gun legally and often times can carry it with them yet you refer to me as the entire population of Canada.
Yeah, Canada has a much lower gun crime rate per capita. Although I've heard the border areas in Canada are starting to become somewhat Americanized related to that.
Canada isn't very good of an example, since it's been proven that folks in Northern climates tend to be more peaceful and happier than those in warmer, easier-to-live-in climates, so this may be more of a factor than firearms.
I was talking violent crime in general, not just gun crime.
I would still disagree with you there, the gap is certainly smaller then between simply gun violence, but there is still a gap and this thread is also in regards to the amount of guns American’s have.
Canada isn’t some perfect utopia, we certainly do have crime. I live in Winnipeg which is one of the poorer major cities in Canada, our auto theft rate is absolutely insane, something like 300 times the national average. We have per capital worse automotive theft related crime then almost any of the worst cities in the US. I bet if you looked at the statistics of drunken bar fights that breakout we would blow the US out of the water
Overall though we don’t have a lot of violence here that isn’t completely gang related. If you look at the statistic for say armed robberies carjacking’s, home invasions, murder, any time of violence crime that could lead to someone’s death(anything involving a gun for example) we certainly have less.
I believe the reason for this is the fact that we have almost no guns in Canada that aren’t owned or used buy hunters. You can’t even get a PAL licence in Canada if you list the reason as self defence. In the US people feels the need to have a gun to defend themselves from Criminals that might have guns and this means the criminals need to step up aswell and be prepared to defend themselves appropriately and their lies the problem IMO.
I believe that if no one felt the need to have guns in their homes for self defence that criminals would become less violent aswell because they wouldn’t feel the need to be armed. Gang violence is a different story but let them kill eachother. If someone wants to break in and steal your TV, so be it, guns or no guns that’s not going to stop, Sit back, smoke a J and enjoy the new TV you’re insurance company will buy you, its not worth getting shot over and IMO its also not worth ending someone elses life over either.
If at least 30% of our prison population is made up of non-American illegals, it makes me wonder how much crime in America is also related to non-American illegals. I think Canada at least dropped the anchor baby thing.
What about the numbers for Australia? It's pretty heavily armed, and a warm climate. Do they have similar gun crime rates as the United States?
And they're all descended from convicted criminals, as well!
dont go there
We no longer transport our undesirables abroad (appealing as that is at times!)
Honest, us Brits have changed and no longer rob, rape and pillage countries. We've stopped government sanctioned drug dealing, and no longer practice the 'trade' of slavery! Although it unofficially occurs in the UK and by our own consumerism perpetuates it in other countries.
This is 'tongue in cheek' so be gentle
wow I'm surprised how many people own guns.... but I'm from canada so...
It's great to have Juball back. for awhile i was affraid we'd lost the inteligent wit that he is known by.
My experience with owning weapons has been through self defense, meaning, guns have saved my life from other humans who meant to do me greivous harm and target practice as well as food procurement. Let me ask sims if he's ever seen the movie: "Red Dawn". you know those "registration papers" you have to fill out to get a gun? not only do they help police pinpoint where a gun came from, but it alows the government to know who has them and where they are. A handgun, I can tollerate a registration of. but anything else, especially assault weaponry, the government has no biz knowing where I live and just how prepared I am if they decide to take any action that may infringe on my other rights. You see, gun ownership, especially assault weapons
are a defense against tyrany just by owning one. You own one so you'll never have to use it......at least against the man.
well ya US is just a bigger country compared to canada I guess so that would definitely make US more violent