Uhhhh....yes, it is health care reform

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by mistawiskas, Sep 8, 2009.

  1. mistawiskas

    mistawiskas kik n a and takin names

    Messages:
    30,066
    Trophy Points:
    98
    Location:
    Rogue Valley Oregon
  2. ninefivezero

    ninefivezero infinite resolution

    Messages:
    12,314
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Somewhere on earth.
  3. tex

    tex jive turkey

    Messages:
    4,177
    Trophy Points:
    53
    Location:
    ATX
    the compulsory part is not as bad as you make it out to be. the thing with healthcare is that at a certain point, you cannot turn people away period, so they are going to be receiving the service regardless. with auto insurance, you don't have to drive. with health insurance, you dont have to live...?
  4. ivwshane

    ivwshane We are all old school!

    Messages:
    6,633
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Earth
    If they make it so that if you don't pay for health care you get fined and they have no public option nor any insurance reform then what we are looking at is the biggest fucking win for insurance companies ever!!!

    I swear to god if the dems fuck this up I'll vote for anyone that's independent no matter how much they suck!
  5. braaains

    braaains gubble gubble

    Messages:
    5,473
    Trophy Points:
    53
    Location:
    Portland, OR
    There is far too much invested in the health/medical industry. There's no way that any outcome from here on out will be pretty.
  6. mistawiskas

    mistawiskas kik n a and takin names

    Messages:
    30,066
    Trophy Points:
    98
    Location:
    Rogue Valley Oregon
    Did anyone read the portion of that article that stated that Americans spend upwards of 2.5 trillion dollars on health care? That's alot of drugs, hospital stays, doctor's and ER visits. 2.5 trillion!!!!
  7. ivwshane

    ivwshane We are all old school!

    Messages:
    6,633
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Earth
    I can almost guarantee most of that money goes to drugs! Doctors now a days don't treat the problem, they treat the symptoms! They have no incentive to fix the problem but they do have incentives to prescribe the latest "pill".
    Posted via Mobile Device
  8. MSP

    MSP Haunting a dead forum...

    Messages:
    29,575
    Trophy Points:
    78
    I knew this whole health care reform thing had officially gone to hell when I heard the Whitehouse was drafting their own legislation. Obama completely breaking from the congressional democrats to write their own bill = doom. By comparison the Republicans, pharmaceutical companies, and insurance companies are in lock step against them. I'll be impressed if they get anything meaningful passed.
  9. braaains

    braaains gubble gubble

    Messages:
    5,473
    Trophy Points:
    53
    Location:
    Portland, OR
    This is one of my biggest issues with the current healthcare system. Theres no money in curing people. That's one of the main reasons that I feel a public health care system is for the better, just so doctors actually have some incentive to cure.
    I realize this is probably not going to happen since the Pharmecutical industry is one of the largest in the nation, and will be fighting it tooth and nail all the way.
  10. MSP

    MSP Haunting a dead forum...

    Messages:
    29,575
    Trophy Points:
    78
    What I didn't realize is how long the Dems have been fighting for universal health care and losing until they did a piece about it on the BBC. Franklin Roosevelt, Hairy Truman, John Kennedy, Lyndon Johnson, Jimmy Carter, Bill Clinton, and now Obama. Apparently even in the 1930s the medical lobby was strong enough to put it down.

    But the BBC piece pretty much nailed it on the head. 85% of people surveyed (not sure which survey) said they were happy with what they have. Obama's going to really have to convince people this will not only increase the number of people covered but also lower out of pocket costs. Which frankly I think is impossible.
  11. Goofus Maximus

    Goofus Maximus Too old to be this dumb!

    Messages:
    7,122
    Trophy Points:
    78
    Location:
    St. Louis area, but in Illinois
    There is a name for those 85%. They are called HEALTHY PEOPLE! They don't have a chronic disease yet, so they've yet to run into the limits that will unexpectedly bankrupt them, when they discover what is not covered that they thought was. My Dad was fortunate, in that he had a Government sponsored Health Care program (the VA Hospital), which took care of him as his heart failed then his kidneys failed, as well as repairing his eye that was injured by a Japanese grenade all those many years ago.

    If not for that, we would have been in a world of financial hurt for the drugs, surgery, and dialysis he needed (but which killed him in the end, from a catheter-based blood infection).
  12. GRP

    GRP oh snap

    Messages:
    4,731
    Trophy Points:
    53
    Location:
    Fort Myers, FL

    Look at India or China. We have ~6 deaths per 1000 infants. A 0.6% mortality rate. That is nothing. If you cross indexed population with the same, the US would likely be at or near the top of the list.

    ... and concerning the first link, we're a nation of three hundred million people. Show me a nation with that many people that does things nearly as effectively as we do and I'll concede the point.
  13. ivwshane

    ivwshane We are all old school!

    Messages:
    6,633
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Earth
    Concidering that only two other countries have a larger population than the US and the next closest country with regards to population is Indonesia I don't think you will find anyone that fits your criteria.

    Population size is not a good excuse as to why we pay more for our health care and get less than a lot of countries, hell, if anything our large population should give us an edge when it comes to medical costs (unless of course we are a country with nothing but sick people).
  14. tex

    tex jive turkey

    Messages:
    4,177
    Trophy Points:
    53
    Location:
    ATX
    no, its one of our greatest successes. We're #37, we're #37! That is like top quarter. :p (but seriously, no post and run on political issues. we have to continue to try and convince one another)

    that is true (the pop size not meaning anything,) but it goes the other way also. You can't just say "oh, canada's (or other country's) health care works fine," whenever we are so much larger than them. The fact is that this kind of thing has not been accomplished successfully on this scale before. There is no comparison for success, only failure (not arguing for or against here, just pointing out the fallacy of the argument.)
  15. ivwshane

    ivwshane We are all old school!

    Messages:
    6,633
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Earth
    I hear you, that's why I'm more for heavy regulation more than anything.

    In a perfect world a government option where doctors are paid based on performance (as in the sick getting better) and everyone would have coverage. That's unlikely to ever happen.
  16. ShabazKillaX

    ShabazKillaX I'm an F18 bro

    Messages:
    2,682
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Tampa, FL
    I fail to see the logic in the "performance based" compensation for doctors. Let's take me for example. I'm a diabetic, and a lousy one at that. I routinely skip shots, don't exercise as much as I should, and do a horrible job on my diet most of the time. How is that my doctors fault? He gives me the information, guidance, etc and I stupidly choose to ignore it.

    Why should my doctor be punished for my stupidity?
  17. Octane91

    Octane91 <smartass comment> Staff Member

    Messages:
    3,058
    Trophy Points:
    53
    Location:
    Petaluma, CA
    I do not understand your logic behind Performance based pay either. If Doctor's and Medical workers fail to revive a pt. that just suffered a heart attack, should they not get paid at all? should their $86,000 bill just be "comped"?
  18. mistawiskas

    mistawiskas kik n a and takin names

    Messages:
    30,066
    Trophy Points:
    98
    Location:
    Rogue Valley Oregon
    The whole industry needs regulated. It should be illegal to opt for treating an illness when a cure can be had. The plain truth is that there is more profit in "treating" rather
    than curing disseases. That is why labs cause cancer....their very livelyhood depends on them finding things that cause cancer and dissease.
    This whole system we have is so messed up by profiteering that there may be no fix.
  19. Goofus Maximus

    Goofus Maximus Too old to be this dumb!

    Messages:
    7,122
    Trophy Points:
    78
    Location:
    St. Louis area, but in Illinois
    That's not always the case. Sometimes, the risks involved in curing are too great, or the benefits aren't enough to justify the cost. If you're over 80 and have prostate cancer, for instance; you'll probably die of old age LONG before the cancer kills you, while the chance of infection from a surgical procedure is very real.
  20. thadood

    thadood I Am The Black Wizards

    Messages:
    4,019
    Trophy Points:
    53
    Location:
    Memphis, TN
  21. Goofus Maximus

    Goofus Maximus Too old to be this dumb!

    Messages:
    7,122
    Trophy Points:
    78
    Location:
    St. Louis area, but in Illinois
    This link will be better in a week, when the audio becomes available.

    I especially love how Dr. Dobson uses his "Ann Landers" advice mill to put people on the Republican Gossip Machine. Also, the comparisons of Obama to Hitler, made by the mainline Republican PR machine, apparently started with the LaRouche folks (yes, they're still around, even though Lyndon himself got jailtime), and were picked up whole hog by the Right Wing.

    Gotta wait for the audio link next week, to hear it, though. Till then, here's another written interview to tide one over..

    Might want to check out his book at the local library, too..
  22. ninefivezero

    ninefivezero infinite resolution

    Messages:
    12,314
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Somewhere on earth.
    This is probably the best thread to post this in:

  23. mistawiskas

    mistawiskas kik n a and takin names

    Messages:
    30,066
    Trophy Points:
    98
    Location:
    Rogue Valley Oregon
    can we trust in our elected officials to getterdun?

    This is our government at work:
  24. GRP

    GRP oh snap

    Messages:
    4,731
    Trophy Points:
    53
    Location:
    Fort Myers, FL
    Bingo. Throw some cost control in there and you've got it.
  25. ivwshane

    ivwshane We are all old school!

    Messages:
    6,633
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Earth
    Do you really need us to go point by point on that email mistawiskas? Seriously, without even probing I can tell you that the info used in that email seriously skews the facts to make their points.