Tea party

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by ivwshane, Apr 12, 2009.

  1. MSP

    MSP Haunting a dead forum...

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    Well, I loved Clinton actually. And at least here in Cincinnati the group organizing these tea parties has been doing so for years. It's obviously gained more steam since Obama was elected. For many (most) it's just an opportunity to whip people into a frenzy in an attempt to put pressure on his administration, to perhaps turn public opinion. I wouldn't deny for one second that a lot of people holding up signs are doing so under false pretense.
  2. ninefivezero

    ninefivezero infinite resolution

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    Since this is the "off topic tea party" thread, I submit this:

    $100 billion a year? Man, all that money they are hiding could sure go a long way towards funding the government and fixing our current problems.

    Their failure to pay these taxes has to be made up by ordinary citizens like you and I, outrage plz?
  3. JZL

    JZL Ministry of Whack

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    I just love how people who said nothing as the corporations raped this country while the Bush people sat around with their thumbs up there asses (or worse) cry "socialism" every time the government gets involved with the economy. It's the same type of polemic fear-mongering name-calling that fooled main street moderate America into voting Republican while their collective pockets were being picked.

    http://spectator.org/archives/2009/04/09/wrestling-with-capitalist-pigs
  4. ninefivezero

    ninefivezero infinite resolution

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    While I generally agree with your statement, the fact is corporations have been doing these things since the beginning, and the Democrats are nearly as "big business friendly" as the Republicans.
  5. SoulAssassin

    SoulAssassin Car Ramrod

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    :rolleyes:
  6. ivwshane

    ivwshane We are all old school!

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    Heres my view. If it wasn't for this financial mess we are in now (recession, wall street fraud, etc) I'd be all for limiting government and reducing government. But since we don't have the option of waiving a magic wand and making it all go away (Bush's favorite phrase) something has to be done to get things moving again. Obama laid out a plan and the American people approved it by voting for him.
    His plan included spending on government programs that will create or save jobs and spurn economic growth and I see it as a necessary evil.

    There are those that disapprove of going this route and their suggest alternative is to do nothing, however Americans didn't vote for that (if they did I'd be all for that option as it will have the biggest negative impact to the average American and so long as those who voted for such a plan are ok with the potential hardship, then I'm ok with it).
    Unfortunately no serious alternative has been suggested, especially from the right wingnuts or republicans (and I do differentiate between the two).


    Having said all that though, I fully expect, no I will demand, that once this financial mess is over that big government be cut (specifically with relation to military spending).



    That's my view and I post it for all to see so they know exactly where I stand.
  7. SoulAssassin

    SoulAssassin Car Ramrod

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    ^ Can't say I disagree with any of that, although I don't know about cutting the military budget. I'd have to find out what we're currently spending and see how cuts may/may not help (too lazy tonight to do it).
  8. ivwshane

    ivwshane We are all old school!

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    Right off the bat, I'd be all for getting rid of any third party that helps with day to day operations that the military once did themselves (aka halliburton).
  9. ThatHideousStrength

    ThatHideousStrength Junior Member

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    From what I have learned in my Monetary course what is happening now is exactly what the government does during situations like this. If the private sector is falling apart and things are not going right (money is not being spent and reinvested) the government comes in and does the spending to keep things afloat.
  10. ivwshane

    ivwshane We are all old school!

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    Exactly.
  11. ninefivezero

    ninefivezero infinite resolution

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    The three drivers of the economy are: Business, Consumers, Government.

    The first two have cut way way back, so the government is trying to help make up some of the difference. If you agree with that idea is another issue, but yes, that is what is going on.
  12. MSP

    MSP Haunting a dead forum...

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    Thank you! I'd go a step further and add "conservatives" to that. I vote Republican these days but generally while holding my nose. I don't care for the influence of the religious wackos in particular but their support is a necessary evil. :(

    :heart: See, I think a lot of the disagreement and venom on the boards can be boiled down to misunderstanding. Typing short messages in an online forum isn't exactly the most expressive method of communication.
  13. JZL

    JZL Ministry of Whack

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    I went through my Republican phase, too. :eek:
  14. Dr. Flashpoint

    Dr. Flashpoint Extremely Volatile

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    I used to be fairly, if not rabidly conservative. Over the course of, well growing up, I have slide all the way across the middle, I know am registered democratic and all. However, being former military, I do have to say, I'm not a fan of cutting the military budget. The military isn't the newest and best shit on the block, and every time the budget is slimmed, old equipment stays in for far longer than it should. On top of that, I think base pay should go up another 10-15%.

    Just my 2 cents.
  15. ninefivezero

    ninefivezero infinite resolution

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    More Facts!

  16. ivanolo

    ivanolo Guest

    I agree that soldiers, as well as police officers and firefighters, should be compensated much better. I mean, it's not like they're risking their lives constantly to ensure our safety or anything, right? Meanwhile, athletes and movie stars make boat loads of money for what? To entertain us. Yep, makes perfect sense.
  17. GRP

    GRP oh snap

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    It's the free market. There's nothing wrong with athletes making so much, especially when you consider the amount of money they make for their respective teams/owners/leagues. If you think about it, it makes perfect sense.

    It wasn't okay while Bush was doing it. In fact, it was more offensive considering the "compassionate conservative" bullshit he spewed. Don't let pundits speak for people who don't have their heads in their asses.

    I dislike Obama for the same reasons I dislike Bush. No one has any sense of financial responsibility at all, and everyone pretends that inflation doesn't exist and that the dollar will be the world's choice of currency forever. Idiots, the lot of them.
  18. ivanolo

    ivanolo Guest

    I understand this. What doesn't make sense to me is that we put more value on people who entertain us than on people who protect us or save our lives.
  19. ATIzed

    ATIzed New Member

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    So Bush must've been up to his old tricks again back when he fooled candidate Obama into going along with McCain and voting yes on the Wall Street bailout bill that had to be made larger to entice more members of the lowest rated Congress in history to vote for it. I guess there wasn't any outcry then from the people because it was the Bush administration, nope there wasn't anyone who emailed their Senators and House representatives, nobody called in, nobody made any fuss at all. Nobody scared their Congressmen into initially voting no on the massive bill before it was inflated to make the risk of being thrown out worth it.

    So when Obama attempts to grant amnesty to millions of illegals and the people scream against it, I guess that will be manufactured outrage as well, and the outcry certainly didn't happen under Bush. Nobody made a peep when Bush tried it. Nope, nobody shut down the Senate switchboard when Bush tried it.
  20. ivwshane

    ivwshane We are all old school!

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    I disagree, there are/where many people complaining about illegals.

    I'm well aware of Obamas pro amnesty stance but I voted for him any because in all honesty I really don't care. If it means more tax revenue and better schools then I'm all for it.
  21. ATIzed

    ATIzed New Member

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    Of course they were, I was being sarcastic (I guess the Senate switchboard shutdown comment failed to give it away), just as they were outraged at Pandora's bailout package that was pushed by the Bush fear machine in his administration's last months. You know, the bailout package that was so vital to save America, and we all soon discovered that saving America also meant increasing the size to give perks to the lowest rated Congress in US history so they would risk the wrath of angry constituents at the ballot box.

    This outrage did not occur under an Obama administration, rather under a Bush administration. Now though, it would seem when it's Obama, it is manufactured outrage because of "fill in the blank silly reason that is all anti-Obama."

    The outrage did not just magically start under Obama, and in case I haven't mentioned it enough to drive home the point home, Congress during the second term of the Bush administration, of which our fledgling leader Obama was a part of, had the lowest rating in US history. Bush was also enjoying terrible ratings. Americans first had to deal with a seemingly unending war in Iraq with billions pouring in and seemingly nothing coming out in the form of any repayment whatsoever, then you had the billions to fight AIDS in Africa that Bush would randomly pledge, then there was the horror of the last 3 months of the Bush administration and the ~700 billion bailout to Wall Street which simply further inflamed a lot of already irritated Americans due to the sticker shock. Finally, when Bush leaves one thinks there might just be a breather, but no, the Obama administration comes in with their version of the Bush fear machine pushing for their 1 trillion stimulus plan.

    The sticker shock of the Obama stimulus followed by what was basically a rubber stamp from Congress was probably the tipping point for many Americans. Many people who probably would not go out and protest were finally irritated enough after having to witness the last great gifts of the Bush administration and the first great gifts of the Obama administration.

    Perhaps if Obama and Congress had taken things a bit more slowly, showed that various options from all sides of the spectrum were actually being weighed thoroughly and carefully to make sure the best stimulus plan were enacted, that there would not be a rush to pass a bill just because, and didn't play up the "America is doomed if the bill doesn't get passed immediately" angle, then at least Americans could take a breath and not feel like the rug was being pulled out so quickly from under them. If this were the case then I would almost doubt that if the protests were still organized that you would have nearly as many attendees IMO.
  22. ivwshane

    ivwshane We are all old school!

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    How many anti republican and anti bush signs did you see at these tea parties? If you claim outrage was going on from both sides before Obama was elected then those same people should be outraged now and should be showing the same kind of hate for both parties.

    Except for a few libertarians that have been screaming for a smaller government since they found Ron Paul a good chunk of the people at these rally's either had no idea what they were protesting for or were spewing right wing hate and talking points.

    Here are just a few of the signs found at these rally's.
    OBAMA
    1. Obama: Undocumented Socialist
    2. Speak for Yourself Obama! We ARE a Christian Nation!
    3. Beware Obama's Hitler Youth
    4. Hitler Gave Good Speeches, Too
    5. Obama Never Met a Tax He Didn't Like
    6. What Do You Expect From a Social Worker in the White House?
    7. Obama's Priorities: $900 MILLION to Hamas - $50 THOUSAND to Italy

    DEMOCRATS
    8. You Know Why Democrats Love Taxes? They Don't Pay Any!
    9. The New Deal: Franklin Roosevelt's Contribution to Socialism
    10. Throw Barney Frank Under the Bus
    11. Liberal Judges Are Destroying America

    ACORN
    12. $3 Billion to ACORN, $0 to Protect Our Border!
    13. ACORN - Another Criminal Organization Ruining Our Country
    14. ACORN: Obama's SS
    15. Subsidizing ACORN is NUTS!
    16. ACORN: Seed of the Obamanut Tree
    17. If Liberals Could Win an Election, Why Do They Need So Much Voter Fraud?

    ISMS
    18. Socialism Is for the Elite - Ask the Slaves Who Live Under Communism & Islam
    19. The Goal of Socialism is Communism
    20. Socialism and Freedom Don't Mix
    21. Capitalism Made America, Not Government
    22. Communists Are Democrats in a Hurry
    23. Obammunism: Slavery You Can Believe In
    24. Comrade Obama Says OBEY
    25. Those Capitalist Pigs Will Pay, Eh Comrade?
    26. Just Say NO to Fascism

    TAX
    27. Don't ask Conservative States to Bail out Progressive States
    28. We Want Freedom From Tax Slavery!
    29. Taxation: The New Terrorism
    30. Now Is the Time for All Good Men to STOP PAYING TAXES
    31. You Cannot Help The Poor By Destroying The Rich
    32. Have You Ever Been Employed by a Poor Person?
    33. The Only Fair Tax Is NO Tax!

    GUNS
    34. Clinging to My God, My Guns, and My Money
    35. Cap 'n' Trade? Lock 'n' Load!
    36. RISE UP - RELOAD - REVOLT
    37. Hear My Voice Or Hear My Gun

    PRESS
    38. Rush Is Right!
    39. Mainstream Media, Hollywood - Guilty of Treason? Yes, They Are!
    40. Thank You, FOX News, for Reporting Fairly

    IMMIGRATION
    41. Outsource Criminals and Illegals
    42. God Bless Sheriff Arpaio!

    RANDOM
    43. U.S. Out Of U.N.
    44. $11 Trillion - Now That's a Lot of Change!
    45. Drill HERE, Drill NOW
    46. Fund the Military - At Least They're Good At What They Do
    47. Save The Secret Ballot - NO CARD CHECK
    48. If You Think Health Care is Expensive Now, Wait Until It's Free
    49. We Volunteer! Government Forces!
    50. They Think We're Stupid
  23. ATIzed

    ATIzed New Member

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    And so? I would have figured that a somewhat unmistakable feeling of anger and retribution would have been detectable among the array of others in the '08 election results with a relatively unknown Obama (prior to the primaries) winning the presidential election despite a lack of any real high-profile political history besides a few years in the Senate, coupled with Republicans being thrown out and Democrats picking up seats in both the Senate and House ultimately putting them in complete control of the government. The building outrage which I think helped to spur some people to attend these protests regardless of who organized them or the variety of slogans other people had on their signs, I don't believe just magically appeared out of thin air this week with no traces stretching into the past before Obama stepped in.
  24. GRP

    GRP oh snap

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    Supply and demand is the big thing though. How many firefighters/policemen/paramedics are there/people capable of being one of the above?

    How many people are there/are capable of being in the NFL?

    It doesn't have anything to do with right or wrong, it's just that there are more people capable of doing one thing than another.

    I'd also wager that a majority of people recognize how important the above jobs are, even over pro athletes.
  25. log1c

    log1c The Underwriter

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    I think you should look up Argentina's economic history. They were considered very wealthy in the 20s-30s. That sentiment was pretty much what flew down there, and now look at them. They went through 3 different currencies, hyperinflation, and a harsh dictatorship government. It is 25 years since democracy returned, but can hardly be considered truly relevant on the world stage.