[Police State] "it is becoming clear that police in Ferguson are targeting journalists"

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Commissar Smersh, Aug 19, 2014.

  1. mistawiskas

    mistawiskas kik n a and takin names

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    So even if the GJ was "gold plated" what could make anyone think that conflicting witness accounts that go contrary to the evidence
    be any better.
    IMHO: the cop was instantly convicted by the neighborhood, anger ramped up by social and mainstream media, and a lot of people bought into it.
    You guys live over there, I'm an outsider looking in. You're bound to see it differently than I.
    You see injustice, I come from a place where there is no police protection, we have to protect ourselves.
  2. Goofus Maximus

    Goofus Maximus Too old to be this dumb!

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    Well after all, all witness testimony tends to be conflicting and unreliable. If that were a standard for not indicting, then nobody would ever be indicted. Deciding who is right and who is wrong is the part that is left to the actual jury, rather than the Grand Jury. For the regular style grand jury, which most of us get, the grand jury is basically a rubber stamp for the prosecutor, which was originally envisioned as a measure to prevent authorities from charging people without evidence.

    As to the "contrary to the evidence" part. Evidence is often over-interpreted and sometimes flat wrong. There are also questions about just what evidence was collected, as well as how it was interpreted. In a nutshell, the folks in Ferguson (the ones who actually think, and don't just run riot because of accumulated feelings letting loose) think the Grand Jury did it's best with what was given to it, and blame McCulloch for what was given to the Grand Jury, and the way it was presented. They wanted a trial to cross-examine much of that presentation for the bias they felt was in it.

    As for the store-burning, rampaging asshats, they're just venting their anger. Any reason would have been good for them. A good part of that feeling is eerily congruent with your "there is no police protection, we have to protect ourselves" statement, though in this case it is the police they feel the need to protect themselves from. ;) As click and clack would have said, their self-destructive behavior is "unencumbered by the thouight process."
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2014
  3. mistawiskas

    mistawiskas kik n a and takin names

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    Well, as an outsider, those "store-burning, rampaging asshats" are totally ruining any chance of dialog and solution to the issues that precipitated this
    mess in the first place and making what the officer did seem more justified. Just saying....
    IMHO: the "blame whitey" attitude and the power hungry aggressive police are the causes and conditions that needs to be addressed.
    That isn't ever going to happen like this. The media wants to stir shit up, the black community wants to blame whitey and the police feel more alienated from those they have sworn to protect and serve and even more justified to use deadly force. For any grand jury and all involved, this is a no-win situation. For every citizen of this nation, it's a no-win situation. The black community
    thinks whites are what are keeping them down and the police think that blacks commit the most crime and treat them accordingly.

    The federal government won't sit everyone down and ask the hard questions because people really don't want to know the answers.
    How crappy would it be to answer a couple simple questions? :
    "what do you want to happen and what do you need?
    "what are you willing to do to achieve that?
    then answer this:
    "how realistic is the answer to the first 2 questions?"



  4. JZL

    JZL Ministry of Whack

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  5. Goofus Maximus

    Goofus Maximus Too old to be this dumb!

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    Natural selection at it's finest. I'd laugh, if it weren't so tragic. I've long ago come to terms with the simple fact that humans are idiots.
    86mcss says thanks for this.
  6. mistawiskas

    mistawiskas kik n a and takin names

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    I agree.
    Everything is the way it is because humans are idiots. And they vote.
  7. JZL

    JZL Ministry of Whack

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    Yeah, we Missourians elected Jay Nixon twice. Now the dumbshit is asking the legislature for more money for the stormtroopers the HiPo and National Guard. Conversely, he's vetoed funding increases and withheld legislative appropriations for the state's withering public defender system on more than occasion. He's actually withheld funds after the legislature overrode one of his vetoes.
  8. HEAVY-D

    HEAVY-D Eh?!

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    Haven't read every post in this thread but from what I've read so far at least there is an attempt to understand what's going on. I really wish there was a way for you to understand what it's like to live in America as a Black descendant of slaves. What you are seeing goes back to the slave trade. The attitudes and actions on BOTH sides are a continuation of the powerful against the powerless. The difference of course is while slaves and recently freed blacks had no power and/or no rights (or whose rights were completely ignored like being hanged for sport by the KKK with no consequences). Today we are free with rights and are still treated differently than whites as if we are third world citizens.

    If you are trying to understand what's happening in Ferguson and America from recent events you will never understand. Did you know many freed slave were arrested and sent to prison and put on so called "chain gangs" for free labor many of which committed no crimes. Take a good look at the history of drugs in America and you will find most anti-drug laws targeted Native Americans, Hispanics, Asians and Blacks. Did you know when "The Irish" were fighting to be treated fairly because at the time they were considered RIF RAF or white trash, Black joined them in their fight for equality but when the Irish won they turned their backs on the Black community.

    I'm not saying the Black community is blameless we have faults like everyone else but we don't control Washington, the media, the criminal justice system or the police. If you want to understand then KNOW OUR (AMERICAN) HISTORY and NOT the the candy coated Bullshit we're fed in schools and the media. If you are serious about understanding then take a good and honest look at what's been happening for over one hundred years.

    [​IMG]
  9. mistawiskas

    mistawiskas kik n a and takin names

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    Hey HD! Great to see you on here again!

    I can kinda relate (on a lower level) to the problems and attitudes against blacks. Being from a poor white family did nothing to negate the
    persecution from other students, society and law enforcement in the nearly all white communities I grew up in. My conclusion growing up: People prey on each other.

    History is a double edged sword. It can create understanding, or it can be used
    as an excuse to not move forward.
    100 years!? try the last 50,000, It all gets down to power and control .
    http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/up-to-13000-people-held-as-slaves-in-the-uk/ar-BBg8jEp
    http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/when-raising-the-minimum-wage-isnt-enough/ar-BBfNCY6

    It's way past time to change as humans. But, there seems to be tendency to let the past dictate the future.
    What is preventing us from moving forward? The answer to that is key.
    It's not just racial tensions, it's that people will not adapt to a life of personal responsibility...
    ...not the cops, not anyone, anywhere.
    There needs to be an attitude cultivated that goes something like this: "live in the solution, not in the problem"
    But that takes effort...nobody wants effort, they want an easy button.
    I honestly don't see enough of a will to change anything at this point from anyone. Nothing will
    ever change without the will of the top 1%. After all, 99% of the population are here to benefit the 1%.
    You remember the 60's, nothing changed as a result of all those riots. Nothing really lasting anyhow.
    A solution? Everyone needs to let healing begin with themselves, not wait for the other guy to do it.
    rotfl....... like that's ever going to happen! I treat everyone based on how they act not who I think they are.

    It would benefit all humans to chill out and realize that attitudes create beliefs and those, in turn, create opinions.
    None of which are facts.
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2014
  10. HEAVY-D

    HEAVY-D Eh?!

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    Maybe this sums it up.

    [​IMG]
  11. Goofus Maximus

    Goofus Maximus Too old to be this dumb!

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    The answer to what is preventing us from moving forward is as simple as the hard-wiring of our brains. We learn what "us" is at a VERY early age, our tribe, as it were. Our tribal chimpanzee brains are wired so that we are only comfortable with those who are "us" culturally and visually. Anyone who is "not us" makes us uncomfortable on a chimpanzee "defend our territory against others" level. This goes on WAY below the level of conscious thought, and isn't amenable to being reasoned with. The only thing our "reason" contributes, is inventing a story to explain this vague discomfort and feeling of threat where no real reason exists. Over time, these stories we invented take on a life of their own, and are perpetuated as "known facts" and "life experience," and are bolstered by that vague uncomfortable and threatened feeling buried deep in our chimpanzee brain. Listening to the testimony of former Officer Wilson, that vague feeling of discomfort and threat comes through loud and clear, under all the reasons he was giving.

    Us whites will never understand the constant low grade harassment that being Black engenders in society, or how it warps the minds of those who live with it from a very very early age, including how it warps their "us" and "other" filters in a really bad way. And so we can't relate to the stories that their "reason" came up with to explain their underlying (and very real) feeling of threat with regard to their "others" which is our "us". The whole thing is a positive (in a negative way) feedback loop that will keep us separated, below the level of reason. The only real solution is for us all to grow up together from birth, with parents who grew up together from birth. In this Country, with property taxes being the way they are, I don't see this economic and cultural intermingling on a lifetime basis ever happening.

    Here is a piece from NPR which offers a window into the "Every Single Day of My Life" experience of black people, which should offer a clue as to why some of them are so freaking fed up with it that they are willing to burn down their own livelyhoods, out of simple sheer rage with the way things are.

    Oh, and Heavy-D! Howdy! Whatever are we going to do, now that Claymore is finished?
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2014
  12. mistawiskas

    mistawiskas kik n a and takin names

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    True.
    I, myself, do not see a solution for those reasons. It is a dilemma (unsolvable problem).
    The basic truth of life is eclipsed. That truth being: we all are born, struggle, grow old (hopefully) and die.
    If you join one "us" it's a dead end, if you join the other, it's a dead end; if you choose not to participate, you're slammed by both "us's".
    It's a no win all the way around so why does it matter?
    We, as a species, have not accomplished anything through evolution. We're simply
    apes with the ability to wipe out everything now. What humans have done, hasn't ever worked. (at least for very long). Why don't we try anything else?

    I have to conclude that we're all addicted to controversy and division. We'd all rather be "right" than "happy".
    Humans are doomed to self destruction. I'll just sit back and watch the show. Wait around to see how the/my story ends.
  13. Goofus Maximus

    Goofus Maximus Too old to be this dumb!

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    I think of humans as just Chimpanzees with this weird pre-frontal tumor on our brains! :)
  14. JZL

    JZL Ministry of Whack

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    Unfortunately, slavery and servitude are the norm in human history and not the exception. The 51 years since Brown v. Topeka Bd. of Ed. is a fraction of the blink of an eye. We still have so far to go.
  15. mistawiskas

    mistawiskas kik n a and takin names

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    As a species, we can't get there from here.
  16. HEAVY-D

    HEAVY-D Eh?!

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    Hi, Idk I'm sad and glad Claymore is over still looking for a replacement so who knows? :)
  17. HEAVY-D

    HEAVY-D Eh?!

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    Jeremiah Camara added 3 new photos.
    19 hrs ·
    Ferguson, MO… It’s Deeper Than We Think

    Ferguson, Missouri didn’t happen overnight or in a vacuum. It is a systemic “disease” that’s been left untreated since Spanish conquistadors landed on these shores. It’s impossible to understand what’s happening presently without taking into account what has happened in the past. The unfortunate death of Michael Brown goes beyond police brutality or Dorian Johnson’s or Darren Wilson’s accounts. Michael Brown’s death, and the fact that he was unarmed makes this case a matter of perception. How did officer Wilson perceive Mike Brown? How do White men in authority perceive young Black men and what gave rise to these perceptions? Believe it or not, they originated from biblical precepts. Precepts, unlike laws, have to do with how one thinks and behaves and how one relates to people who are different from them.

    The bible has had the greatest influence on race relations in this country because it's precepts spelled out the relationship between the master and the slave, which was translated and implemented on the plantation. The most fundamental precept of slavery was that “God” divinely ordained Whites to be superior and rule over the inferior Blacks. These precepts of Black inferiority became the general rules that regulated the thoughts and behavior of even the poorest Whites who perceived themselves as being superior to Blacks. These precepts of inferiority ultimately found its way into the legal structure of slavery and it enforced an inferior position upon Blacks. In 1667 the law stated that Blacks were inferior to Whites because “God” was on the side of the master. This is why laws may be changed and amendments may be added over time but precepts linger. You can’t legislate how one group FEELS about another group. For example, the 13th amendment did not and could not abolish the precept of Black inferiority because the notion of Black inferiority was and still is a state of mind that doesn’t owe its existence to the legal process. Ferguson is a vestige of past precepts and notions of racial inferiority.

    So what’s my point? The point is that no matter which account you take into consideration, I doubt very seriously if officer Darren Wilson would’ve reacted the same had he been confronted with an image of a man in HIS likeness. To shoot an unarmed man at least six times and twice in the head has to do with a deep-seated fear within Wilson, which most likely stemmed from his perception of Black men. The reactions of Black people, before and after the decision not to indict officer Wilson were also the result of fear. No matter how reckless or reactionary many Blacks may have behaved after the shooting, it must be understood in the context of Black people’s perceptions of White men in authority. Yes, it’s true… Blacks kill Blacks everyday, and dread (future) the possibility that one-day our loved ones or we may be victims. But persons in authority, especially White men killing unarmed Black men, is a fear attached to a past that is perceived as a threat to Black existence. There is a difference.

    America will always be a “diseased” nation until perceptions of one another changes. Blacks were conquered and were made to believe they were inferior to their conquerors. Conquerors ultimately control the thoughts, beliefs and behavior of their subjects and when a long period of time passes, it will appear as though this is the “natural order” of things. It was assumed that “God” did indeed favor Whites because it was apparent that Whites had the “cargo”…. mainly superior weaponry.

    There may be more Michael Browns to come because there has yet to be an honest discussion about the precepts of racial inferiority and the jurisprudence of American slavery. To think that we’ve somehow completely moved on from the notions of one group perceiving themselves as superior to another group is a big mistake. Darren Wilson didn’t just shoot Mike Brown, George Zimmerman didn’t just shoot Trayvon Martin and Michael Dunn didn’t just shoot Jordan Davis; they all shot their perceptions… of Black men.

    [​IMG]
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  18. mistawiskas

    mistawiskas kik n a and takin names

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    At this point in time, the mess is irreversible (imho).
    No part of the equation is willing to do what it's going to take to stop the cycle.
    It's sad really, because we are all capable of so much more than what we are.
    Humans are hell bent on self destruction.
  19. HEAVY-D

    HEAVY-D Eh?!

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    Darren Wilson I can understand but The assholes who killed Eric Garner? This fuckin country I swear. If I'm going to die I will die as a man and die fighting. Fuck this shit.
  20. Commissar Smersh

    Commissar Smersh 2020 Staff Member

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    How long until the race riots a la apartheid South Africa?
  21. JZL

    JZL Ministry of Whack

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    I hadn't seen the Garner video until this morning. That one sure is scarier-- a group of thugs killed the guy on a busy sidewalk in broad daylight with people filming it, and they didn't give a shit because they knew they'd get away with it.

    Wasn't it for some BS ordinance violation for which they usually write a ticket (rather than arrest), anyway?

    Interesting, from a NY cop:

    http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2014/12/qa-an-nypd-officers-real-talk-on-garner-case.html
    :

    So you don’t think this is a race thing?
    No, it’s not a race thing. It’s a Ray Kelly thing. That man singlehandedly ruined this department. When I came up as a rookie, you were assigned an older cop who had been around and knew what they were doing. We were taught that you catch more flies with honey. Basically, if you let the small things go — like the guy selling loosies or weed or whatever on the corner — then when the big shit happens, like homicide or burglary, those are the same guys who will tell you all about it. If they hate you, they won’t tell you shit.

    Last edited: Dec 4, 2014
  22. Goofus Maximus

    Goofus Maximus Too old to be this dumb!

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    Selling cigarettes individually. That was his horrible crime.
  23. mistawiskas

    mistawiskas kik n a and takin names

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    Did the po-leece piss off the media this year?
    Because none of this is new. It's been happening for a long long time.
    Suddenly the media goes ape shit over police brutality and strong arm bullshit.
    The media has most of the political power in this country. Dare not piss them off!!!

    While everyone is paying attention to what one hand is doing...ever wonder what the other is up to? Shit like:
    http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...-bill-to-limit-nsa-backdoor-spying/ar-BBglo1q

    http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2014
  24. HEAVY-D

    HEAVY-D Eh?!

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  25. mistawiskas

    mistawiskas kik n a and takin names

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    Pissed off? Rightly so, but it hasn't been a secret.
    I'm just used to watching 360 degrees when something attempts to focus my attention in one direction.
    Like watching other issues that went away when the media focused on this one. (whatever became of Snowden?)
    The gov spying, the real economy, political wranglings of every imaginable type just to name a few.
    With the Ferguson and similar issues....it's a perfect smokescreen that really draws people in.
    Make no mistake, I do not trivialize what's happening now. Racial tensions are as big an issue as we'll ever face. It's always been there and would be a handy diversion for any entity to use though.
    Just saying
    that smoke-screening, playing both side against the middle, plausible deniability are used all the time.....
    ....and they really work well. That's how shit ends up in as crappy of a state as things are today.

    Not saying it is or is not, but what if:



    You'd never know it was here until it's too late.........................................................then what?
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2014