OK, this is fucking outrageous.

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by MSP, Apr 20, 2009.

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  1. SoulAssassin

    SoulAssassin Car Ramrod

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    Ahhhh the beheadings were because of American policy on torture...who knew?
  2. krod

    krod Junior Member

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    I respect the opinions of retired generals who might not agree with the present day situation...but...the fired ones?...not so much
  3. Tacdriver

    Tacdriver Junior Member

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    Apparently killing 200,000 plus in Japan and then half that in Dresden (carpet bombing) during WWII is ok but, waterboarding 3 KNOWN terrorists is just outrageous!
  4. namelessentity

    namelessentity Resident Cynic

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    Hopefully this works...
    [​IMG]
  5. Tacdriver

    Tacdriver Junior Member

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    Idiot...........typical from you. Is this your logical retort? Smart guy!!
  6. namelessentity

    namelessentity Resident Cynic

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    Your typical retort is to say something no one else on the board agrees with to provoke others. You are a troll on this forum.
  7. Tacdriver

    Tacdriver Junior Member

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    Then I shall leave if that's the belief of others.........join in all. If you all feel I'm just a "Shit-Starter" I will go. Someone start a poll.

    I'm serious. Perhaps at the next forum I join, I'll just agree with everyone or, just attack those whose opinions I don't like by posting stupid pics about them being a troll because I can't muster an intelligent argument without using the "Copy/Paste" from another website.

    Take a vote.
  8. ivwshane

    ivwshane We are all old school!

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    I thought putting things in terms of black and white would have helped you to understand the debate here but I guess I was wrong.

    If America doesn't stand by the laws it makes then what does it stand for?
  9. Tacdriver

    Tacdriver Junior Member

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    Keeping you alive to defend your feelings on this issue perhaps?

    We just don't see the same things and I can't figure out a way to make you see my point of view. I just can't!
  10. ivwshane

    ivwshane We are all old school!

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    I see your point. You are all about compromising your morals and principles to feel safe and secure.

    I'm all about willing to die and stand by more morals and principles.

    I know what makes me an American and that's not believing in certain values and freedoms only when it's convenient.

    And you know what? It's hard work! The easy thing to do in life is to tell people to do as I say and not as I do but I want to be a better person not just say I am.
  11. Tacdriver

    Tacdriver Junior Member

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    Ok I've had it. You live in a "Dream World" man. During a time of war do I think that forcing some water down somebodies throat when I KNOW they have something to say is going to save my family or yours is justified? You're goddamn right I do. What is wrong with you?

    We're not fighting a country or an army. We're fighting a culture/religion and the beliefs of the people behind that religion don't give a shit about what America stands for and in all reality neither do you. Jesus Christ!!! Are you suggesting that some stupid law that doesn't pertain to terrorists stop all intelligence gathering because YOU feel it just doesn't seem right?

    How about I put you and one of these animals in a room together? You can squat in the corner yelling about human rights and The Geneva Convention while IT tears at your throat because IT hates YOU and all America stand for.

    That can be your eulogy. Anywhere from 1 - 10,000 people died but he didn't bend on his beliefs.

    What a martyr. That is just scary and that is what will destroy us.

    All of you keep up the good work!! Even President Obama has backed off any investigations into this. The American People are against you.
  12. ivwshane

    ivwshane We are all old school!

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    You still don't get it! You are arguing the justification of torture, I'm not advocating for or against it, because it doesn't matter, it's illegal.

    In the 420 thread you said you can't agree with someone smoking pot because it's illegal BUT if it was legal you would have no problem with it.

    Torture is illegal but you have no problem with doing it. So either you don't believe in laws AND you believe good justification overrides them or you believe in following the law and there is no gray area for justifying breaking them.

    If you believe in both then you are a hypocrite because one contradicts the other.
  13. Tacdriver

    Tacdriver Junior Member

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    This is your argument? We're talking about life or death here not what some of society sees as wrong (smoking pot) verses personal gratitude (getting high dude.)

    Big Difference for shits sake!!!! You're comparing illegally smoking pot to enhanced interrogations of a KNOWN terrorist? Are you serious?

    Torture is NOT illegal on foreign soil. Waterboarding is NOT torture anywhere as far as I'm concerned.

    Waterboarding these individuals didn't break any laws. President Obama doesn't seem to want to find out if it did. We are safer now. No laws were broken.

    Smoke up Johnny!!

    P.S. Quote completely in context or not at all......don't pick and choose.

  14. ivwshane

    ivwshane We are all old school!

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    I suggest you read up on the subject then.
  15. Tacdriver

    Tacdriver Junior Member

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    Perhaps you should forward your vast knowledge and insight on the subject to The President because apparently, he's on my side. Anything else? ......Otherwise I'm off to bed with a clear conscience and feeling safe.

    You go ahead and toss and turn about how the U.S. treated Khalid Sheikh Mohammed.
  16. ivwshane

    ivwshane We are all old school!

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    Since it's not the presidents job to prosecute criminals I really could care less what the president does.



    Let me ask you this tac, which one of these items are you for or against?

    1) outlawing tobacco companies

    2) outlawing private transportation

    3) stem cell research

    4) outlawing all fast food

    5) Outlawing soda

    6) outlawing anything that causes air pollution



    Since I have no problems backing up my morals or principles I'll answer first:

    1) no
    2) hell no
    3) I'm for
    4) no
    5) no
    6) no

    Everyone else feel free to answer as well.
  17. Eavanr

    Eavanr New Member

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    The problem Tac is that you don't know whether water boarding will work. The only evidence we've ever had that water boarding has worked has been from the government, specifically people we know have lied in the past like Dick Cheney. Why? Get ready for the knowledge bomb; politicians lie. You can't be a passive sheep who accepts whatever the government tells you.

    Also, you are wrong with regards to the players in the current conflict. Saying that all militants are blood thirsty religious fundamentalists displays your naivety and lack of understanding about the conflict, especially in the Afghanistan and Pakistan's FATA areas. While the core leadership of militants in this area is made of exactly those religious fundamentalist, their ranks are burgeoning with the poor and the politically disaffected. This is especially true for the former considering it pays ~$600 per rocket fired at ISAF installations.

    Finally, you are grievously mistaken about public opinion regarding the use of torture and prosecution of former Bush officials for its use. These numbers are based on a joint Wapo-MSNBC poll. See for analysis:

    New poll on torture and investigations negates Beltway conventional wisdom - Glenn Greenwald - Salon.com

    FTA:

    "By a wide margin -- 58-40% -- Americans say that torture should never be used, no matter the circumstances. Let's repeat that: "no matter the circumstance." That margin is enormous among Democrats (71-28%) and substantial among independents (56-43%). As usual these days, Republicans hold the minority view, but even among them there is substantial categorical opposition to torture (42-55%)."

    "a majority of Americans (50-47%) believe that the Obama administration should investigate whether the Bush administration's treatment of detainees was illegal"

    "Americans would have opposed (52-42%) the issuance of pardons by Bush to those "who carried out his administration's policy on the treatment of terrorism suspects."

    Tac, you can't make shit up. Read a fucking book.
  18. tex

    tex jive turkey

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    Wow thats a piss poor arguement. Comparing torture to smoking pot? Seriously? I think you're taking this argument a little too black and white

    apples to oranges. do people recreationally do torture? does torture have any effects minus very short term? etc

    So basically, going off the other stuff you said, I think you would die for the "right" to smoke pot =p

    and while we're on the subject, doesn't look like anything is going to happen anyways:
    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/24/us/politics/24cong.html?_r=1&scp=3&sq=harry reid&st=cse
    http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/...ion-inquiry-panel/?scp=3&sq=harry reid&st=cse
  19. demonizeZ

    demonizeZ Junior Member

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    Torture is wrong. Plain and simple. Just like lying is wrong. Not comparing them on the basis of severity but on the basis of strong ethical and moralistic view. Though lying can cause great deal of pain, even more then physical kind... (which is a different discussion for different day)

    People still lie, if they can gain some thing by lying, they will lie, if they can protect some one dear to them by lying, they will lie, or any other reason. The same way torture will get done. If the intel required is necessary, then any and all means will be used. There is no right way to go about doing this (at times). Unfortunately this is life of that particular environment.
    People who will never get there hand dirty with such action, should think of the world and look at the world in good light (or atleast try to). No reason for them to get bitter, thinking about things that may not ever effect them. Not saying they shouldnt voice there opinion and fight against wrongs. Just dont let it effect your personality in big picture.
    People who are given the job of using any means to protect one thing or another or help gain profitable intel (to who ever it may be profitable), will do what they think is necessary. Regardless of people's view about right or wrong.
    Fighting for right and wrong is good. As long there is more good then bad (atleast in the environment they interact), i think people should live with just that.
  20. ivanolo

    ivanolo Guest

    +1 for banning Tac!
  21. ivwshane

    ivwshane We are all old school!

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    We don't ban people for having different views.

    If we only associate with people with similar views then eventually our logic becomes corrupt.

    Its kinda like what happens when people inbreed.
  22. demonizeZ

    demonizeZ Junior Member

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    LOL OFF TOPIC.

    Some how that line made me have flash back of Hill Have Eyes... :confused:
  23. ivwshane

    ivwshane We are all old school!

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    Please answer my question in post #116.
  24. ivanolo

    ivanolo Guest

    It's not his having a different opinion that bothers me, but the fact that he can't argue in a civilized manner. That and his trolling.
  25. tex

    tex jive turkey

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    ivwshane is getting to that point too (maybe its the arguing with tac so much thats making him do that =) )

    Make it relevant somehow and maybe I will

    do you prefer girls with brown hair or black?
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