Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Tacdriver, Aug 14, 2010.
A defeatist attitude is what's really going to change things?
The bad thing about getting rid of incumbent congressmen is that freshmen senators and representatives don't have the influence and connections to get anything done. If we kick everyone out then it's more likely for things to get worse because the lobbyists will have a field day manipulating the weak representatives who make it into office.
People need to be more vocal with their local government. It isn't that hard to get in contact with your representative. They actually do listen.
Ever been to a city council meeting or a local government gathering? It's like a ghost town unless you're from New England.
There's one of the magic words: Lobbyists. The Golden Rule in operation; those who have the gold, rule.
Yes, I am defeatist. The '60s anti war movement brought us to this point, in Iraq and Afghanistan. The Reagan Revolution brought us to this point, of incipient double-dip recession. I've seen what these political windstorms change. Nothing. People feel good for a little while, then the law of unintended consequences sets in, and before you know it, things are right back where they started.
I kind of skimmed all this but I'm with you, MSP. I'm in limbo.
I hate the corruption in politics, I hate the say one thing and do another once in office, well there are a lot of things I hate. I doubt none will change and I still love the country.
I've sort of ignored this thread up until now, but getting back to the initial question: For a few people yes, all they do is complain about America and believe this nation has done zero good in the world. They are simply wrong for a number of reasons, but one reason would be that nothing in the world is that black and white, NOTHING. Anyone who believes that has an ignorant and simplistic view of the world, one which is not representative of reality.
That being said, the people who stand up and shout about how America can do no wrong are just as foolish in their views.
It is possible, and very much advisable, to be critical of America. If you don't ask questions, and seek to improve things, the only place to go is downhill. Complaining alone doesn't help, you have to do something to change things. But some people are so blind in their 'patriotism' or whatever it is, that they can't see the value in pointing out the mistakes America has made, and the problems we face.
And on the subject, I"ll just throw out this image
Notice how the most frequent visitors to the top of the list are small, sparsely populated Arctic or sub-Arctic Nations. It's just too cold to go outside and get into trouble!
Also, those bar graphs are a tad misleading, since they don't show our position in totality, but lop off the bottom just under the US entry. Position number 17 isn't all that bad, for instance...
I do have to say, Germany would be a nice place to live. Possibly right up there with the US, except for their silly violent videogame laws...
Second note: Those numbers on edumacation can be extremely misleading. Read Richard Feynman' essay on that. This also applies to the scientific literacy numbers.
Sweden, Finland, and Norway (largely in that order) are also the greatest exporters of Death Metal. An interesting correlation.
...And have really high rates of suicide brought on by SAD. Still, they have some of the highest standards of living on this planet. We could learn a thing or two from them.
EDIT: Apparently, Newsweek likes the Nordic countries as well.
Bunch of commies....
More like not playing the game anymore. No "defeatist" about it. Hitting them in the pocketbook seems to get some arousal. Let wallstreet and congress fuck up the industry I've devoted 32 years of my life to, then require me as a taxpayer to bail the fucks out? Fuck me? NO...........................fuck yoooooooooooooo. I just won't work and pay those taxes.
I will work just as hard, only for me and mine, no sharing a single buck with moneyy grubbers that bribe lobby for the laws to benefit them. My life is sustainable and self sufficient. Not much profit for any corporation coming out of this house. I won't play a game that there's absolutely no chance of winning. And as a result, I live freer than most.
I haven't a hard time with being law abiding or honest because I'm not out to get one over on anyone.
Then the lobbying and influence peddling asswipes won't have the same experience in hiding the inproprieties and lies, thus showing how fucked up and anti american taxpayer they really are.
It's also not like the experienced in congress are getting anything done that benefits anyone but corporate concerns anyhow. How long many decades did it take to get a healthcare bill through congress? And who really benefitted when one was ramrodded through? http://articles.chicagotribune.com/...re-health-reform-legislation-health-insurance
How many decades has there been talk of doing something about the illegal alien situation? What has been done so far? I'll tell you, more has been done to try and stop states that decided to not wait for the US government to uphold the laws it set forth.
What seriously has been done in congress that helps this nation and it's hard working people?? I'll tell you: more tax and spend, more agencies, more pork, more national debt, more catering to special interests, less SSI to go around (SSI is our money not tax dollars, set aside in our account, taking it without asking is stealing), free healthcare, housing, food, money to non taxpaying, non citizens that aren't even legally here, more dishonesty andclosed door actions, more doubletalk, the list can go on for awhile.
What has the American citizen gotten for what congress has done: http://www.usdebtclock.org/
Maybe a congress that doesn't have the influence and connections the present one has, isn't such a bad thing.
I see problems and no solutions so I don't play. It is very frustrating to see whats going on in our country, the poeple that are being elected, and the general way things are ran. But that is democracy, every stupid person gets their say....
It's not democracy when there are no choices my friend. We're cattle being driven in a herd.
This country only preaches democracy, in actuality it is a republic.
I know you addressed this question to Americans, of which I am not. But if I could change one thing about the American government it would be a way to keep the lobbyist/politician relationship in check.
I am on the outside looking in though.
Which is how it was intended to be. Would you really want the majority opinion to make all the decisions all the time? People are irrational.
The electoral college doesn't give us no choices. The electors have to vote for the winning candidate from their state. Unless they are superdelegates (former presidents, senators, etc) in which case they can vote for whoever they want.
BINGO! also addresses what Coleman wrote.
Actually, the Electoral College doesn't have to vote for the winning candidate of that State by law (it just a sort of unspoken promise). In fact, originally, you voted for (or appointed) an electoral representative himself, on the theory that you vote for an intelligent person to go thrash it out with the other electoral college members to pick a new President. The Founding Fathers intentionally put in degrees of separation between the voting public and representatives in Office, so that the woes of Athens (with their direct Democracy) would not be repeated in the U.S.. They put in separation of Powers, so that no one branch of Government had total control over said Government, and they overlapped powers, so that there was never only one route for redress/action. They also designed Government to be weighted more toward the local/State side, rather than the Federal side, so that the important center of power is closer to home. They were aware of human foibles, and designed a system that took those foibles into account.
Suppressing/eliminating corruption is impossible. The Founding Fathers knew this, and designed a self-correcting system to help cancel out the worst effects of corruption. Over time, we've thrown most of the protections out, laughably under the name of "eliminating corruption". We've also come to think of ourselves as one Nation, more than a collection of Sovereign States, and so over time power has slowly consolidated toward the Federal level, in a "One Ring to Find Them, and In the... Nation... Bind Them" way...
Yes but if your electors don't vote for the winner then that state is penalized. Florida lost half of its electoral college for doing it.
When was this? I remember States like Florida losing half their Delegates for jumping the gun in Primary season, but I don't remember when a State lost electoral college votes. Googling didn't help me so far, so please enlighten me.
Yeah, sorry. Florida lost delegates when they tried to move their primary to earlier in the year.
Electors are punished by the Supreme Court in 24 states for being faithless voters. They are appointed by their party at the national convention or nominated and voted on by the public so they are typically very loyal.
(the electoral college kind of sucks, though)
Apparently, Glenn Beck is one of the "blame America first" crowd. FF to 3:23 on this video.
Thought you'd like to know, since you were praising him for selling a lot of books and stuff.
Anybody else keep looking at this thread title and briefly think it's about the band OK GO?
EDIT: And 950s chart is very misleading. Take "effectiveness of education" for example. The Asian education system create great test takers, but in terms of originality of thought or being able to apply any of it towards practical use they are horrible. To the point Asian nations are sending experts here to study our teaching methods. Infant survival rate is another. Factor out the ghetto and I suspect we'd be pretty high up the list. Kinda hard to nurture a fetus with a crack pipe in your mouth.
and the chart that really gets my attention and has already been posted:
It's not the first set of numbers that bug me the most.
Yup. That's what Feynman pointed out in the link I provided previously. They can quote the book, but they don't have any understanding of what they quoted. This applies to the scientific literacy question too.
That said, this current generation seems to be the stupidest yet. Those Jaywalking episodes really make me ashamed of my Nationality sometimes!
Oh, and you don't get to factor out the ghettos of the US, since they are US Citizens just like you! They are in fact, the very victims of the rationing in the present US health care system, that conservatives pretend doesn't exist in the free market. They like to filter out the ghettos as well!
The main thing to keep in mind regarding the ghetto is that a big portion of their segregation is self inflicted. They chose to live in a separate and inferior culture. Same with health care, if they want it they might want to start focusing on education and raising their kids. Remove their numbers and the United States would bubble to the top of a lot of those lists.