"New York governor signs same-sex marriage bill into law"

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by ninefivezero, Jun 25, 2011.

  1. Coleman

    Coleman fresh off the corner

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    You draw the line when people's rights are infringed upon. No one is losing freedom because gay people can now marry.
  2. mistawiskas

    mistawiskas kik n a and takin names

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  3. MSP

    MSP Haunting a dead forum...

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    The difference is that marriage is a religious ceremony, that's why there's been such a fight over this. Most religions are pretty clear on homosexuality, Christianity for sure. The difference between tolerance and acceptance is pretty huge, you can't force people to accept something that goes against their beliefs.

    Civil unions that held the exact same rights as marriage would have made everyone happy and wouldn't have required all this fuss and wasted money. Go back to the 1960s, Martin Luther King wasn't marching in order to allow black people to be called white, he just wanted (and got) the freedoms.
  4. Commissar Smersh

    Commissar Smersh 2020 Staff Member

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    Actually, no, Christianity is not pretty clear on homosexuality. The passages that are often quoted are A) from the fucked up land of the Old Testament and B) can and have been translated to be anti-rape or anti-sex outside of marriage rather than against dude on dude. Hell, marriage as the institution today wasn't practiced back in biblical times and if people were "wed" it was often a barter/selling essentially of the woman to another family (hellooooo dowry).

    This I agree with. Seperation of church and state means that the state can't just adopt a religious practice (marriage) and tell someone that they can't get married. But, like "under God", I doubt it'll go away anytime soon.

    Edit: Also my post lolling at Lurker's fear of gay dude sex didn't get posted. :(
  5. MSP

    MSP Haunting a dead forum...

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    OK, so I'll play ball that the New Testament might not be as clear about it as the old. But the religious groups themselves, their leadership and other writings view homosexuality as a sin and against their imaginary god. Now I personally don't believe in any of this shit, in fact my marriage ceremony was Hawaiian tribal and didn't contain any Christian crap at all. But anyway, the state is essentially forcing them to permit in their ceremonies something that they deem to be evil and a sin. I don't propose to tell a private group what they must allow, but the gay agenda and liberal politicians apparently have no qualms about it.
  6. Commissar Smersh

    Commissar Smersh 2020 Staff Member

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    Because like Christmas, Christians have pushed their religious stuff onto the state and in the secular society we live in, it's become well secularized. I think it should work in regards to anything else in society, you open your doors to the public you have to accept all of the public. Don't want gay dudes getting married in your church? Restrict marriages to church members only, I'm sure Tom and John will get the hint the first service they try to attend that it's not the place for them.
  7. annadora

    annadora Drug Dealer

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    So if marriage is strictly a religious ceremony, then why can people get married in city hall by a justice of the peace rather than a minister/priest?

    And to go further along that line of thinking... do people of other religions that are married not count because it's technically not a union blessed specifically by your god?
  8. Stephen

    Stephen 1337

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    Could they get married before this but just not in a Church?
  9. MSP

    MSP Haunting a dead forum...

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    This or some variant is what I expect to happen. I don't particularly care for the wacko religious right but they're not going to take this sort of thing sitting down.

    And Annadora, the answer to your question about justice of the peace wedding is that the government got involved and the line between church and state blurred. Historically I'm not sure why, but I personally think they should get out of the marriage business. Same deal with ship captains. They should be permitted to certify civil unions only.

    Yes, it just wasn't called "marriage". Spousal benefits and everything were afforded them, but it wasn't good enough.
  10. Stephen

    Stephen 1337

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    In that case I agree with you MSP. If they could get married before but with a different name who cares. It's the same thing, they shouldn't be complaining.

    The churches have there rules, if you don't like them that's your problem. This is a rule which effects everyone. There rule I'm guessing states if you want to get married then it has to be male and female. They're not saying gay people cannot go to church, In fact if a gay male wanted to marry a female that would be fine I guessing.
    They are just saying they won't marry two gays in a church. Those people can as annadora said can get married else where.

    Edit - Should have asked this first, does this Law force Churches to marry gay people or just make it legal should the church allow it?
  11. MSP

    MSP Haunting a dead forum...

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    Not sure. Probably doesn't force them, but watch the lawsuits start to fly for any church that refuses a gay couple.
  12. hans5849

    hans5849 Serious as a heart attack

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    How about we just say but buddies?
    What about lesbians?
    Who cares about lesbians.
  13. Coleman

    Coleman fresh off the corner

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    Is that actually the case, though? I'm pretty sure civil unions are not as good as marriage. I'm having a hard time finding NY's Civil Union law as most of the stuff I'm finding is about the newly pass law.

    http://debatepedia.idebate.org/en/index.php/Debate:_Civil_unions_vs._gay_marriage
    This is just copy/pasted from the site above:

  14. MSP

    MSP Haunting a dead forum...

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    It wasn't equal everywhere and in every circumstance, but they never really pushed for it to be. They could have won that battle much, much easier. I would have supported it.
  15. Coleman

    Coleman fresh off the corner

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    It's my understanding that gay people could give fuck all about the religious aspect of "marriage". I admit I'm not well versed in NY's gay culture but I am willing to bet that they don't all want to get married in churches. Or any other of the places that have demonized their way of living.

    As for churches being forced to marry gay people? That will be interesting. I'm a supporter of gay marriage but a church should have a right to refuse service to anyone they want. Catholic churches turn down couples who they deem unfit matches or immoral all the time. I don't see why legalizing gay marriage would change that. However.. these links address a non profit/501c3's right to refuse and whether or not they get to keep their tax exempt status. If it came to hurting the churches wallet, I think they may crumple and allow the rainbows into those gloomy pews.

    Right to Refuse
    501cs Facts
  16. MSP

    MSP Haunting a dead forum...

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    I can't imagine they'd want church weddings either. But why then didn't they push for expanded civil union rights instead? I personally think it goes back to what I said about there being a big difference between tolerance and acceptance.
  17. annadora

    annadora Drug Dealer

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    I personally have no strong feelings one way or the other about the topic. I'm not gay, and I'm not particularly religious... so I guess it's just because it doesn't really affect me in any way.
  18. ninefivezero

    ninefivezero infinite resolution

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  19. tex

    tex jive turkey

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    INVALID ATTACHMENT AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGH

    /contribution to this thread
  20. ninefivezero

    ninefivezero infinite resolution

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    edit: It works if i do it one at a time.... *sigh*

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    God damn the t3d uploader is fucking worthless

    More coming.

    ok, more. One at a time...

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  21. Coleman

    Coleman fresh off the corner

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    I always thought of it more as being about equality. Or how "Will you civil union me?" just doesn't sound right..
  22. ninefivezero

    ninefivezero infinite resolution

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    It is because seperate is not equal.
  23. MSP

    MSP Haunting a dead forum...

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    Courturedharlot? How have you been? :lol:

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  24. Torx

    Torx Indigenous Nudist

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    big win for the gay community, good for them.

    everyone having fun and celebrating, good to see.. beats having riot news on the front page, people getting shot and killed or beatup by cops.
    its all love people.

    times are changing, change with it, or get left behind.
  25. ninefivezero

    ninefivezero infinite resolution

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    That's kind of like saying you shouldn't go to a pro baseball game if you don't play on a baseball team. Only baseball doesn't matter.