MiniITX or MicroATX for the new year??

Discussion in 'Tech' started by Torx, Dec 30, 2009.

  1. ivanolo

    ivanolo Guest

    Latest and greatest? WTF are you talking about? In 2008, I upgraded from a Socket A Sempron 3000+ (2004) to an LGA 775 Core 2 Duo E6600 (2006). And I just got a PS3 as a gift, almost four years after it came out. I still have a PS2 which I want to exploit. You know what my TV is? A 32" Sanyo CRT from, like, 2005. So where are you coming up with latest and greatest?

    Seriously, get one of these.

    Atom is aimed against ARM. Its main feature is the fact it uses the x86 instruction set, so you can run Windows on it. That's why you see it in netbooks and nettops, which are cheap computing devices.

    As far as I'm concerned, an HTPC is a purpose-built computer that aims to consolidate several devices (desktop, DVD player, DVR, gaming machine) into one.
  2. Chainblade

    Chainblade Junior Member

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    i wasn't necessarily specifically talking to you. just talking about the people on this board in general.

    i'm not sure where you get info that a HTPC is an all in one PC. that, IMHO, is just a regular PC if you want it to do a little bit of everything. i mean it's in the name. HOME THEATER PC. I mean a name is just a name so we can obviously do whatever we want with whatever PC we have. My idea of a HTPC is a small, lower powered computer that is hooked up to a TV that runs some sort of media software like XBMC or Boxee and that's it. i'm going one slight step further and also using it to download my torrents/usenet but that's about it. but i like the idea that it can be a "full" pc. yes i could use a PS3 to "probably" do most of my video streaming but just in the off chance that i have a funky codec, i'm covered on a real PC. plus I really really like XBMC. i researched getting stand alone boxes like using my PS3 or WD Live or what not but i didn't want to hog my network streaming video all the time with 2 other roommates sharing the network.

    anywho, like i said, who knows, i may regret my decision but i made it so i'm sticking to it lol. i'm not out a whole lot of money anyways. i will gladly come back on here and say i was dead wrong if it doesn't work out.
  3. tex

    tex jive turkey

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    I'm with you, all my shit is 3+ years old. The only thing I have splurged on recently was my Dell LCD (2yrs ago or so, $700. have come to realize i wouldve been way ok with the lower end model)

    i have one of the msi wind desktops w/ win7 for my htpc, i love it, and everyone who uses it does too. I think i spent $200 total for the unit + memory. Had an HD and wireless card laying around. The only complaint is that sometimes it sucks at streaming (hulu is the only bad one off the top of my head) so you have to let it buffer for 5 minutes before it will run and not skip.
  4. ivanolo

    ivanolo Guest

    Neither am I. Let's review what I said, shall we?

    From Wikipedia:

    Now that's pretty different from an all-in-one. From Wikipedia:

    Again, try to read my posts more carefully.

    Torx, the bottom line is, if this computer you want to build could end up being used as your primary rig, get a "real" SFF PC.
  5. Torx

    Torx Indigenous Nudist

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  6. Chainblade

    Chainblade Junior Member

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    yes because wikipedia is the end all of all arguments. I can go edit it right now and type in what my idea of a HTPC is...

    you still sort of proved my point (and yours for that matter). Yes, technically a HTPC is doing many things but it's still all HOME THEATER related. Not gaming, not desktop use, not word processing, not browsing the internet. that's my point.

    And all-in-one was just a figure of speech that I said. It wasn't meant to be a technical term.

    anywho, let's put this to rest. we obviously don't agree on this particular subject and that's fine. we don't have to.
  7. Torx

    Torx Indigenous Nudist

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    I'm still undecided guys you need to continue the debate so I can make a final decision. *snicker*
  8. Chainblade

    Chainblade Junior Member

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    well, if you are going to be doing other things besides home theater stuff like gaming or general desktop use, I would go the route of what ivanolo is suggesting and either buy a better slim desktop or build your own. If you are only intending on just home theater stuff and nothing else, then a system like the acer revos or asrock's would be great. But it's more of a space saver/low power consumption computer. if you have the space, i'd follow ivanolo's suggestions.
  9. ivanolo

    ivanolo Guest

    I used Wikipedia because it's a well known place to get information. You're grasping at straws by citing the inaccuracy argument. I could've relied on any source, but you still would've had a problem with it.

    Nice choice, Torx! The Popcorn Hour devices do almost everything under the sun. IMO, a dedicated MCE with its own OS is better than a half-assed Atom PC, even if the MCE's hardware is inferior.

    I'll keep insisting that you get something beefier as your HTPC, though. :p
  10. Chainblade

    Chainblade Junior Member

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    i'm not grasping at straws lol. but your wikipedia article did prove my point. yes it said the words convergence device, but it only talked about home theater tasks. that's been my point all along. you are thinking htpc mean it has to game and has to do all these other things. that's not a htpc anymore, that's a system that needs pretty damn good specs. i just don't get how an atom pc is half assed when it does 1080p video fine and it's good enough specs for 99.9% of people out there. i'm sorry but gaming is not an essential function and it's a small market technically speaking compared to how many people use PCs. and gamers won't be looking at atoms anyways. yes, they are underpowered for that. if you NEED more than that, then it's not a htpc anymore, it's just a regular power computer that does everything, including home theater tasks.

    i'm not even sure why we keep arguing about this. like i've said multiple times. it's just a god damn name. i don't care if it's called HTPC or FUPC, all that matters is that torx gets a device or computer that does what HE wants to do with it. naming conventions mean NOTHING. It's all marketing bullshit anyways.

    All i know is that what I, personally, am using my HTPC is for it to be sitting in my tv stand, permanently hooked up to my big screen. it is almost always loaded with XBMC running so I can watch TV or movies. I rarely need it to do anything else. and the only other tasks it ever does is download my tv/movies in the background. sure, i could had saved a whopping $130 to get one of these streaming devices but i didn't want to hog up my network and for $130, i'd rather have a real computer. And i did a lot of research and all the people that end up with one of these small micro pcs with atom processors (i'm talking the 330 dual core atom by the way), they say they are more than powerful enough to play 1080p video. that's pretty much the toughest function a HTPC would do usually. the only thing i'm missing is if you want to use it as a DVR as well. in that case, then I would probably suggest a more powerful machine. i would just think, these days, most people aren't using a PC for DVR. I know people do but I would think if you are using a HTPC, you are ripping/downloading your media, not watching it through a cable provider. maybe i'm just way off base here. just in my reading online, that's how most people are.

    anywho, yet again, torx, get whatever works for YOU. don't listen to us and our little debate that neither will win. we both have good info as far as i'm concerned, i just go a different route than ivanolo would, no big deal.
  11. Torx

    Torx Indigenous Nudist

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    fuck it, imma buy/build all three! :D :D

    you guys are gonna make me break my wallet! :p
  12. ivanolo

    ivanolo Guest

    Exactly. YOU don't want YOUR HTPC to do anything else.

    Nope. If it was built with the purpose of being connected to your TV in your living room, it's an HTPC.

    Which one is it, then?

    And I never argued that. See my reply to your second quote.

    I'll give you the nonessential part, but a small market? Tell that to Nintendo, Sony, Microsoft, and all the multi-million dollar companies that develop games. And I guess gaming HTPCs are out of the question. Make sure you edit the Wikipedia article to reflect that. And let these guys know:

    http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/ati-radeon-hd4650.html

    http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=145

    See my previous replies to your quotes.

    NOOOO!!!! WHAT ARE THESE GUYS DOING?!?!

    http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/gtse...iteurl=www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/index.php#1296

    Now you're making sense.
  13. Chainblade

    Chainblade Junior Member

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    ya i've said all along that it is what I think a HTPC is. Just like what you think one is is your opinion too. let's not forget that little part.

    and i said all I want it to do is watch video but it's nice to have a real pc under neath just in case i need it. but it wasn't worth sacrificing size or power consumption or spending more money to have it.

    sigh...and yes, gaming is a small market in the PC world. i'm not sure what the crap ps3's xbox's and wii's has to do with PC gaming. For all the PCs out there, it's a small percentage that use it for serious gaming. hell, even casual gaming would be a relatively small percentage compared to the number of PCs that are actually out there.

    again, on the DVR recording on a HTPC, it's a small percentage. you seem to think that whatever I say is etched if fucking stone or something. There is ALWAYS exceptions to every rule. hell even if it's 60% don't use DVR on HTPC's and 40% do, I'm still right. and i highly highly highly doubt 40% of people that use a HTPC are using it as a DVR as well. Your little search queries to AVS proves nothing. It's god damn AVS Forums lol. Of course their are going to be topics about it. It's a freakin tech site dedicated to talking about that stuff. The smallest percentage of people that do these things are going to be on that site so it's going to be talked about.

    I can make a website forum about using a jackalope as a sex toy and i can guarantee you that most of the topics on that website are going to be talking about that. so based on your "logic", i could do a search query on jackalope sex on that website and come up with lots and lots of topics about it. does that mean that everybody does it? hell no. it's a small percentage. get real man, not every way you use your computer means that it's what the mainstream does.

    I think we all need to step back for a moment and remember that we are tech savy people. We are on a tech website forum. we live and breath this stuff. in reality, we are way ahead of the curve. what seems like normal to us is not normal to most people. nobody outside of my tech friends even know what a HTPC is, let alone that you can even connect a computer to a TV and they don't even know how and why you would. My non tech friends still don't understand how I can go without cable tv and just download/rip/watch online all my content. we are ahead of the curve man. I don't remember what you do for a living but I have had a job in the tech industry because most people have no idea about technology. Most people are clueless. and even the people that can use their computers well for work and casual stuff at home, they don't know about all this extra stuff we are talking about. it's not mainstream and it's not a large percentage, no matter how you want to spin it.

    and, again, we are arguing about nothing. we are arguing about a friggen name of a PC. How about we just call it PC from now on? I mean come on. What is the difference between a PC, HTPC, gaming PC, etc? They are all just names and they all could and can do any number of things you want it to do.

    What's so great about PCs now is that everything is overkill. EVERYTHING. all these fast ass parts is just cake and extras so we can run crysis 2 or whatever new game is out at ridiculous resolutions on our 30" lcd monitors. guess what? nobody NEEDS that. and a small percentage even does it. like i said before, my "old" P4 system played every game i threw at it through this past year. I'd still have it if I didn't have someone offer to buy it. you are DAMN right an atom processor sucks compared to other processors out there. but it's not meant to compete with them. i'm finally upgrading to dual-core stuff, just so i can run hd video on them. if it wasn't for that, I wouldn't give a crap. let alone quad core and 8 core, 16 core, 32 core crap that will be coming out. give me a break.
  14. ivwshane

    ivwshane We are all old school!

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    GEEK FIGHT!!!

    [​IMG]
  15. Jackalope

    Jackalope NNNNEEERRRRDDDSSSSS!!!!!!

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    Heeeeyyyy...stop taking my ideas.
  16. Chainblade

    Chainblade Junior Member

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    haha nice. i'm done thought. we are going around in circles anyways. let us know what you decide to get torx. i'm sure it will work great with whatever you get.
  17. ivanolo

    ivanolo Guest

    It's hard to take you seriously when you keep contradicting yourself, moving the goalpost, and when your whole argument has been to dismiss my suggestions because only a small percentage of people apply them. But whatever, dude.
  18. Chainblade

    Chainblade Junior Member

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    i haven't contradicted myself. perhaps i've been bad at explaining things at times (i will admit to that one). and my whole argument had nothing to do with percentages at all but the way you talked seemed to suggest that it's your way or nothing and what your idea of a htpc is the end all be all. just because you can prove your point with websites mean nothing. i can prove my point with websites too. and i'm sorry if you are too blind to understand that how you use computers isn't the way that the majority of users use their computers.
  19. tex

    tex jive turkey

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    holy shit you are being pedantic ivanolo. htpc and all-in-one are fucking generic terms
    also the princess fight picture is HIGHLY EROTIC

    has anyone used one of these things? this looks awesome. i will throw my htpc out (actually i will trade it to the girlfriend in exchange for whoopie). the netflix integration is a requirement on all future entertainment devices i buy. i think that they're going to end up dominating the movie/dvd streaming market with how much of a head start they have combined with the all the stuff coming out that supports it. already works pretty damn well, and my connection is POS dsl line

    also, i have stopped getting too much into building my own unless its a gaming box, so i was looking to upgrade mine with this sucker:
    http://www.dell.com/us/en/home/desktops/inspiron-zino-hd/pd.aspx?refid=inspiron-zino-hd&s=dhs&cs=19
    can get it pretty loaded for <$500...
  20. GOG427

    GOG427 Free Mustache Rides...

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  21. Chainblade

    Chainblade Junior Member

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    thanks, i'm glad i wasn't the only one...

    and lmao at trading computers for whoopie. man oh man do I need a girlfriend like that. she sure is a keeper there tex!

    the main reason I don't want to use my PS3 as my streaming device is that I just don't know about having my PS3 on that often. I mean is it ok to have it on 4-5 hours a day on the weekdays and like 12 hours a day on the weekends? Just seems like it would kill the life of the PS3 after a while. As a part-time streaming device, I would use it just fine but for a full time solution of being on all the time, I just don't think it would be a good idea. thoughts?
  22. tex

    tex jive turkey

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    dude, the ps3 is a computer. just use that, especially if you already have it. it has fans and shit.
  23. Chainblade

    Chainblade Junior Member

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    i may give it a try. i just know i really like XBMC but maybe it's just easier with a PS3. what's better, Tversity or PS3 media server?

    another quesiton about streaming on the PS3. If I get a router that you can plug a usb hard drive, will the PS3 stream that way? or does it have to be off of a another PC?
  24. ivanolo

    ivanolo Guest

    As long as your PS3 is in a well ventilated area, there's nothing to worry about.

    I use PlayOn to stream Hulu to the PS3. It works fairly well, except that sometimes it sutters. PlayOn can also do Netflix, but not nearly as well as using Netflix's own PS3 disc.

    For movies, I just use the PS3's own HDD. Eventually I'll upgrade it to 500GB or something.

    AFAIK, either your router or your HDD must be UPnP/DLNA compliant to use it as a server with the PS3.

    Sorry for being pedantic. It just comes naturally.
  25. Chainblade

    Chainblade Junior Member

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    no worries man, it's been a good debate :)

    ya my PS3 has a small hard drive and i use a 1TB (soon to be upgraded to 1.5 or 2) hard drive so that wouldn't work. I believe you are correct that the PS3 only sees UPnP devices. so the hard drive would have to be plugged into a PC or something. I don't believe the routers use UPnP with the plugged in USB hard drives but I could easily be wrong. So in that case, I would have to have a computer anyways so I might as well just use the computer with XBMC instead of the PS3 so I don't have multiple devices on, plus the XBMC software is better. Now if the PS3 could see stuff off a USB hard drive on a router, then that's another story.

    EDIT: After my research, it does seem the Linksys WRT610N does do UPnP. Very very interesting. I may give that route a try.

    EDIT again: well maybe i won't go that route after all. after my research, the PS3 does not support MKV files yet does it? Tversity and ps3 media server still need another computer to work right? or am I wrong?