McCain VP pick - his strategists are geniuses.

You make it sound like being successful is a bad thing. News flash: there is nothing stopping you from making a six figure salary. I'm 28 and am in that range. I don't even have a college degree. This is America - the only thing limiting your success is you.

In a perfect world! Being successfull is great as long as it is realized that it is not without an added amount of share in the well being of the nation. The way it is set up now, the "successfull" ones' have it all stacked it thier favor, to benefit them; hense: the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. Also, what incentive is there for the people who actually do real sweat enducing, back breaking, honest work, to keep doing so and in a productive manner? At a profit for those "successfull" bastards?

Ditto. I simply have some certifications and work hard. I worked 10 hours today (Sunday). I'll probably work another 10 tomorrow (Labor Day). How about you Jubal? The flip side to the American Dream is that if you don't pursue it with gusto, you will be mowing my lawn or serving me a Big Mac. Bitch.

Ask them in a few months and a lot of them (if honest) will tell you they voted for McCain/Palin and her sex played a role. Of course they are going to want you to believe it isn't so simple. But for many it is.

I'm not directing this at anyone in particular, but I don't understand people who think that all they should have to do is work hard at one particular thing and that should entitle them to a good life. It's not that I'm against hard work, I think I work hard at what I do, but the lack of adaptation people show amazes me. For example, factory workers who just install widget 'A' into slot 'A' all day. They think that doing that should ensure them guaranteed success with a big house, and nice toys. Never do they stop to think about getting additional training, degrees, etc to move up or improve their situation. They think that should all be taken care of by 'the man' or whatever term you want to use. They think SS should be their retirement, or the company should provide a pension. Same for health care. Why should they have to be responsible for either of those things?

I honestly just don't understand that mentality. You know what my reaction was to this 'recession'? I'm busting my ass adding more certifications and training to make myself more valuable. It's a holiday weekend and guess what I've been doing? Learning VMWare ESX in my lab.

If a kid from the projects in Bayonne, NJ can make a comfortable living for himself anyone can. It just takes effort. If you can't make a good enough salary doing what you're doing change careers. No one is stopping you.

Can you understand this:
who builds that car you drive?
who builds tthat building you work in?
who maintains the roads you travel on?
who supplys and sell you the food you consume?
who has to make less so you can consume at anything all?
How makes less so the "successfull can make more?
It isn't about what a person does, it's about being able to partake in the fruits of thier labor. for every successfull person, there are a hundred or more that contribute to thier success in an indirect and direct manner. The attitude of: As long as I get mine!" is what has fucked the world up. The concept of "success" is relative. On one hand a financially successfull life is desirable by the one's who value money and material possession and on the other, family, environment including the health of the planet is what has the
value and success is measured in how harmonious thier life is with the planet.
Successful people used to recognize that other people helped them get where they are at and took pleasure in helping those folks out when times got tough and the building blocks of thier success weren't living well. Today, the successfull take 100% of the credit because of the "me first and formost" attitude that it takes to become successfull and stay successful in this business climate. The scale has been unballanced for generations and soon something is going to break. look at the cars this country used to make compared to the ones that come out of USA factories now. It has already begun. Why should a person work thier ass off in a consciencious manner, producing a quality product when it won't mean that thier family will benefit from that? Why produce more to earn less? Why go through more hassles if it doesn't translate into a better life? All this equals a trade deficit and poor quality. The building you work in? What if the guys that risk life and limb to build it, just didn't give a flying fuck on the quality of work that goes into it?
It is happening at this moment in time. The infrastructure projects you see happening all around you as a result of that collapse in Ohio, those guys aren't getting paid any more than they would have 15 years ago. with higher taxes to shoulder and double digit inflation, do you honestly believe thopse guys are real worried about the quality of the finished producrt as much as they are about how they're going to pay for fueel to get to work tomorrow? Or pay for the school clothes they had to spend thier grocery money on so thier kids can start school this week? When you add the future and hopes of making a better one for the kids in your family and the dispare of knowing you'll not have anything left after taxes and basic bills to put into a colledge fund for them................yeeah, those are going to be real safwe buildings and overpasses you use every day of your life. But what the hell, as long as you're successful, right?
Besides,it just doesn't take "effort". it takes the right breaks or the right help.

mmmm... bit of a contradiction in the last 2 sentences. You say she would be a real breath of fresh air, but also say the party would provide someone with experience??

So a Dick Cheney type situation is what you envision?

Easy to say, just try it and report back.

I am very thankful for the life that I live, but was raised a low class laborman. I still do physical labor, just make more money for doing it. I agree with wiskas wholeheartedly. Luck has a lot to do with succeeding in this world. Just like who you you know does.

The gap is constantly widening. Inflation isn't being led by supply, demand, and wages anymore. Everything is based off of greed now. Something has to break sooner or later. The question is how far into the upper class the pain will reach. I hope all of em, so it will put people back into their places and quit ripping everyone off in the lower classes.

~Will Courtier~

No one said it would be easy. But if you want it you can do it.

Double rant!

Wiskas, I for one appreciate the folks who support me and understand that what they do is important. But the American Dream doesn't provide CEO wages for ditch diggers. In my youth I mopped up blood, carried heavy loads, stocked oil filters, etc. I didn't like it and frankly didn't understand my lot for a long time. But I did it anyway. And eventually I understood how the game worked and am now exploiting it the best I can.

When I was 25 years old I took stock in my life, made a plan, and have been executing that plan for 10 years. What were you doing at 25? You've had some bad luck, made some bad choices, and our outcomes have been different. It's really not that complicated. I'm no smarter than you. And I'm certainly not any harder worker than you. I've just had a little luck, made some better choices, and BAM! In your shoes I'd be angry too. But it's not a conspiracy against you, and I don't know I'd even call it injustice. It's just probability.

EDIT: I love you Wiskas.

People have to be very naive to believe in good luck or bad luck. Its simple causality. Nothing more. Every action we take or dont take pretty much effect us. Wether you slit some one throat and take over there empire and live or say its immoral and some one else just do that and live happily. Its just simply if you take advantage of whats in front of you. Unfortunately it dont make a world better but it let you have a what you want.

Personally after living and doing what i have done. All i see the world and people in it just as number. Equations either for addition or subtraction. If they are obstacle on way then they get subtracted. If not, then they just simply road signs passing me by on my way from point A to point B.

That is the key! Learn the game, play it, beat it!

If you think about it, "causality" is just a word to encompass good/bad/neutral luck. So you are actually just saying the same thing using different words. You only THINK you're disagreeing!

hmmmm sorry man i don't get that. I don't mean any disrespect, but i don't understand how simple cause and effect(causality) can be connected to good/bad/neutral luck.

An interesting article.

Daily Kos: Sarah Palin Is NOT The Mother [Photos+Video]

Shit happens, look at Eric Clapton.

I don't think anyone is out to "get" us per say, but I will agree that the ultra conservatives and extreme right-wing nut jobs scare the fucking shit out of me right now. I know it's "fun" and "cool" to pick on Republicans at the moment. Every anarchist punk rock teenage dickbag has a shirt that says "Fuck Bush" or something to that effect. So a lot of the Bush/Neo-Con bashing is done because people are bandwagon jumpers and do it to try and look and feel smart and/or cool. I get it.

Let's face the facts though: Republicans have a long and strong history of being anti-War, and almost isolationist (not in a hurtful way) when it comes to foreign policy. We can't let two morons (Bush/McCain) smear the reputation and integrity of an entire party. Remember Reagan? A Hell of a guy and a Hell of a president, and really not a whole Hell of a long time ago. Don't associate a failure or two (potentially) to an entire party. I don't blame the Democrats for some of the things Bill Clinton did that I was disgusted with.

What I do think is fair, and justified, is our strong disgust and cries of protest of these ultra-conservative, evangelical whack jobs that are turning this country into an abysmal failure. I don't understand why people supporting McCain/Palin, even on this very board, don't get that 4 years of McCain is essentially a 3rd term of Bush.

We're at a fork in the road, with two very different paths that we can take, right now in 2008. One road, in my opinion, leads to a very dark and dangerous future full of uncertainty, higher gas prices, a more thinly stretched military than before, and the continued loss of credibility, respect and reputation for this country. John McCain will take us down that road. I'm 100% certain of that.

Like Ron Paul even said, the base of the Republican party has shrunk significantly over the past 8 years, and people like himself that are the defenders and champions of that party are sticking around to do what it takes to inform people of the party's true ways, and then there are the neo/ultra conservatives I've spoken about.

I completely agree with Ron Paul when he says the party has really lost it's way recently. It's unfortunate.

I'd also agree with what MSP is saying about the middle class and the lack of "go getters" if he didn't support a candidate that thinks the "middle class" is an individual making less than $5 million a year. We can't all be burger flippers at McDonalds and achieve the American Dream, I agree there. But we also can't all be multi-millionaires that have to refer people to their publicists to see how many houses they own. Please...

In my weird way of looking at the positives in everything, I think it's pretty cool that regardless the outcome of the election, it's going to be historic. We're either going to have the first African American president, of the first woman vice president. To me that's pretty cool.

I wouldn't call it a fork in the road, to me it's more like two paths in a booby-trapped temple Indiana Jones would be making his way through and you have the wall of spikes slowly inching toward you from behind. Both paths are undesirable to me, there is no third path, and the thought of an extended Bush term is very unpleasant.

Excellent. At this rate you'll soon join us in the penthouse. I'll keep a smoking jacket and a glass of brandy waiting for you.

I will support whatever party has policies most favorable for me, at whatever income bracket I happen to find myself. If I made 7 bucks an hour I'd probably be voting for Obama, no doubt.

Easy choices are part of the problem with our system and not part of tghe sollution. Politicians have made an art out of making our choices easy. The problem starts when what is protrayed and what actually gets delivered are along way apart in reality. The bottom line; the beast gets stronger, the people get more dependant on bigger guv, the taxes go up and the debt grow. Until that "bubble" pops, nothing will change no matter what any politician promisses.

What is it going to look like when this particular "bubble pops"?
It may look neat, but it won't be pretty:



Don't kid yourself, the government wouldn't hesitate to use them, even against Americans.