Immigration and Racial Issues

Discussion in 'OT Graveyard' started by Axl_Rose, Oct 28, 2006.

  1. Axl_Rose

    Axl_Rose Junior Member

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    I know we've had numerous threads about immigration and what not...but I was listening to AM radio today and it got me thinking some more.

    To start off, I don't remember the exact year but isn't it sometime within the next 5 years that whites will be the minority. I don't know about you guys...but that scares the hell outta me. I went to Atlanta this summer and I seriously did not feel safe. I really would not like the idea of some fuckin Juan Gonzalez or Jamal Johnson being our president, because I know whites have treated most other races terribly in the past and I don't want that shit to come full circle.

    Secondly...this mexican immigration needs to stop. They talk about it all the time and yet they never do anything about it. I say let militia rule. You know there would be a texan every 50 feet guarding the borders with rifles at all times.

    Third...this goes with the second but everyone in this country NEEDS to know how to speak ENGLISH. This is where the radio show comes in. The guy was talking about how people need to speak english, but he was saying how some people say that we should just give up and teach everyone spanish and english. I say FUCK THAT. It's our country...we are the ones being "invaded". We do not need to conform to those mother fuckers to make them want to come here even more.

    And thats all I can think of right now....but some things in this country really need to change.
  2. MovingTarget

    MovingTarget New Member

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    The second language for businesses isn't a bad thing - rmember that people travel from around the world...and I think they should get a little better if they can translate another language - think about it - they had to learn that other language......

    BUT - I have a huge problem with the immigration problem....just the ILLEGAL ones.....I'll add more later as I have to go to work now.....
  3. mistawiskas

    mistawiskas kik n a and takin names

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    The guy theat puts these up, reads my mind.

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  4. czechrboard tassia

    czechrboard tassia Likes gay people.

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    lol at the last sign
  5. ivanolo

    ivanolo Guest

    I think that what the government needs to do is dedicate its resources to thoroughly enforce the current immigration laws and crack down on illegal immigrants and deport them, as well as fine and lock up whoever hires them. Also, giving Mexico some kind of ultimatum to resolve their problem would be a good idea. Building a fence won't work. I'll support a militia only if they capture and deport the fuckers, not shoot them.

    I'm all for learning the language spoken in the country you plan to migrate to. After all, I did. But some Americans need to set their pride aside and learn to speak a second language, if only to familiarize themselves with a different culture. Try it, it's fun.

    Black president?! Have you seen 24?! :p
  6. chapel

    chapel Jolly Bolly Fo-Folly Staff Member

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    Everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

    I think the borders should be open, completely open.

    Why you ask? Freedom. We aren't free with closed borders. Because of this whole immigration fiasco that the government has been on about instead of "saving the white people" (hahahahahah lmao to that) they are setting up check points inside of america. Enacting the Real ID. Taking away our freedoms, for what, someone that wants a better life. As long as they dont come into my house and bother me, I dont care.

    Im sorry that people are against immigration, guess we should make it retroactive, you know, so it will always have been illegal. If your family wasnt naturally born in america, then you are to be deported immediately. Sounds like a good idea to me, One nation under god.
  7. mistawiskas

    mistawiskas kik n a and takin names

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    There is a right way and a wrong way to immigrate....that is the issue. Legal versus illegal. I'm all for enforcing what laws there already are on the books. That's thae problem, the laws aren't being enforced. When you sneak into another country and expect the other country to change because you have arived, that's not immigration, that's invasion.

    To all that arive and stay here illegally, I say "up against the wall mofo!"
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  8. Axl_Rose

    Axl_Rose Junior Member

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    Let me take a stab in the dark and say you aren't white.

    Secondly...the people don't have to "come into your house" to bother you. Everyone in the country(tax paying people anyways) feel the residual effects of illegal immigrants.

    Immagration 100's of years ago is WAY different then it is now. Most of that was LEGAL as opposed to swimming across a river or packing a car trunk with 15 people...with you're only goal to get on american soil so you can get that nice chunk of free money.
  9. czechrboard tassia

    czechrboard tassia Likes gay people.

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    +1! well put.
  10. chapel

    chapel Jolly Bolly Fo-Folly Staff Member

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    Do you know what laws there are? Do you know how hard it is to become a naturalized citizen. Did you know that when our grandparents parents(or however old you are) immigrated, there werent the same laws and regulations.

    An open border doesnt increase the amount of people that come, it will help people come legally. Not to mention we would know who is here or at least how many vs now where thousands get through illegally and no one knows how many or where or when.

    The government is using immigration as a reason to enact more control over us. Plain and simple, and if you dont see that, then maybe you should go to california and go through their check points. Oh, you want a job, well the federal list that employers have to check says youre not hireable. What, thats not you, eh, who cares your name is on there, no job for you. Oh yeah, ICE is coming for you. Non-police/military armed forces to take down immigrants. Ghestapo!
  11. Axl_Rose

    Axl_Rose Junior Member

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    This might be the dumbest thing I've ever read concerning this topic. So you're saying if we open the borders that less people will come here? Not a chance. Thats like saying stores don't have to charge money for items...but you can pay if you want. How many people are gonna pay?
  12. chapel

    chapel Jolly Bolly Fo-Folly Staff Member

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    So youre saying, that mexicans will still come packed in vans, crossing over the desolate parts of the border, when it is legal for them to come in like anyone else... I never said it would decrease immigration, but it would help make it legal.

    Youre saying you dont want immigrants period, legal or not. That sounds very unamerican. Oh, sorry its very american now. Lets block everyone. I wonder what would happen to our economy, were in a slump, its not rising, if those hundreds of thousands of invaders werent around to spend money on food and gas and all those things we all spend to live....hmm I wonder.
  13. Axl_Rose

    Axl_Rose Junior Member

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    No I never said they will still come in packed vans...because it would be unnecissary. Also you didn't says that it would decrease immigration..but you said it wouldn't increase it, which I really think is untrue. I think the amount of immigrations would spike, because they don't have to worry about paying someone to take them over...or worry about getting caught...they can just simply come over, maybe sign a few papers and they're in.
  14. chapel

    chapel Jolly Bolly Fo-Folly Staff Member

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    A reply to your last msg, not the quoted above. I never said it would not increase either, I just said it would be easier to control, than what were doing now, or building fences.

    In response to the above.

    I am white, as white as you can get. Im not a liberal. Im not conservative. I just am tired of government control. I think the government should be minimized to basically nothing. No welfare, no medicare, no minimum wage. I think you should have to earn your way in life, no matter what, and if you own something be it land or an item, you can do with it as you want. Not to mention we shouldnt be paying taxes. But thats another argument entirely.

    100 years ago, they just came to america to come to america, not to get free money. Im sorry but if the government is giving free money to illegal immigrants, than what is the problem, the immigrants or the government handing it over?
  15. Axl_Rose

    Axl_Rose Junior Member

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    I agree with the welfare and earning your way completely. Same for the land, but as much as we don't like it taxes are necissary(maybe just not as much as now)

    The free money isn't the problem(well part of it). The illegal immigrants are the problem and always will be, unless we do something to keep them out.

    Tell me this...would you rather have to go though a checkpoint every once and awhile, or have millions of people in our country that don't belong here, don't speak our language, and don't participate in the improvement of our country and lifestyle.
  16. chapel

    chapel Jolly Bolly Fo-Folly Staff Member

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    What improvements are we making without them?

    Who is gonna work at the chicken rendering plant? Who is going to pick the apples? Im sorry, but our country has become dependant on illegal immigrants, and the frequency or amount of them coming to our country is no more or less than it was before, the only difference is the media is making a big deal with it. As well as the government sending armed forces to round them up and spend more money dealing with them. Do you even understand the scope of what "rounding them up and deporting them" will cost. Were talking hundreds of billions apon hundreds of billions of dollars. Not to mention the loss to our economy from them spending the money they earn.

    On the taxation note, taxation is illegal, and was not meant to be around after WWI. It was illegally put in as an amendment that to this day has not been signed by all the states. Enough about that, other than no taxation is needed, what does the money go to? Nothing for you or me. Unless youre on welfare or medicare.
  17. wheezer

    wheezer Junior Member

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    Sorry, you are wrong.

    having open borders is a recipe for disaster.

    Don't forget, that it's not just the poor dirt farmer scraping by on beans & rice to make it through the day trying to come into this country to make a better life.

    It is also the drug cartels and the gangs that will bing across guns and drugs into our streets at an even more alarming rate.

    Soon every border town in this country will be like Compton.

    I am sure you will say "well there is already an influx of drugs and guns into this country"

    and you would be right....why? Because no one wants to close the goddamned borders that's why.

    If someone would have the balls to take the bull by the horns and do something, this would not be a problem to begin with.

    Someone is going to rob your house. They are going to do it reguardless of your attempts to stop them.

    So do you just leave your front door open so they can waltz on in and take anything they want? Or do you continue to lock your doors and windows and even possibly invest in an alarm system to try discourage them and at the very least make it as difficult as possible?

    Not to mention all the disease these people bring across, diseases we wiped out a long time ago in our county but is still prevolent in these poor countries...you want your kid going to school with an illegal immigrant kid whose family is suffering from typhoid because they had such piss poor if any medical capabilities?
  18. chapel

    chapel Jolly Bolly Fo-Folly Staff Member

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    Well, guess what, Im against the war on drugs, and gun control. So its a good thing. :p
  19. Cr@cKpiPe tE@sEr noOb!

    Cr@cKpiPe tE@sEr noOb! Not Just Handsome

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    From what I remember in my economics class, immigration is actually good for the country in the long run. I don't feel like thinking why though. You can figure it out.
  20. ThatHideousStrength

    ThatHideousStrength Junior Member

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    Busienesses want money, so if that means if they need to put that 2nd opto\ion down they will.
  21. MovingTarget

    MovingTarget New Member

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    Immigration does help the economy......Immigration is how this country was founded and whilst it is true that the laws now are different from "100's of years ago" is because it has gotten out of hand. The people back then WANTED to merge with society and become a country dependant upon itself - they made their efforts to fit in by getting jobs, paying taxes and working like every other tom, dick and jane. The ones who immigrate now legaly are doing just the same - they work their jobs and get paid wages and pay their taxes and contribute to society. The one who are in the crosshairs here are the ones who DON'T do it legally and FRAUDULENTLY receive government assistance and piss all over this country. You can tell easily with most of the ones who are illegal.....EVERYTHING they do is to "support" their original country.....they hold a protest and march down the streets waving the flag of ANOTHER country..... If their country is so much better than ours why come here?.....why go to another country and treat it like trash and praise your country at the same time? I'll tell you....because they are illegal and milking off another country......

    I know that allot of the "grunt" work if you will is done by these migrant workers, but if the CORPORATIONS who hired them paid decent salaries and had decent benefits then other people would be just as happy working those jobs and they wouldn't only be worked by illegal immigrants. The corporations who hire them know they can get away with working an "undocumented immigrant" to the bone while paying him what NOBODY would consider a fair wage so they keep doing it......(this is where those modern laws help the corporations be legit)

    If the borders were opened up wide you would let more bad in then good. I know that there are white people and black people and others who abuse the welfare system and trash it for those who REALLY need help from time to time. I don't like the welfare system and I feel it should go completley but that will never happen -

    just like the open border you dream of where anyone can do what they want while doped up and armed to the teeth.... I'm sorry but the views you have Chapel aren't American at all....


    I got to go back to my old stomping grounds from childhood and it looks ENTIRELY different then when I was a kid.....back then the houses were painted nicely and the yards kept orderly...kids playing in the street in the culdesac's.....now there are 5-6 cars parked at each house 2-3 of which don't work and have piles of cobwebs around them for decoration I suppose.....and the cars aren't parked in the driveway or in the street - they are in the yards which are all dirt and dead grass.....most of them have addons built on to the sides of them so they can move another family into them......you are FORCED to hear their music because they feel liek blasting it so loud it rattle your windows a street away.....I'm not saying that white people don't let their places got o shit - but the majority of white people do their best to keep their house looking in good condition....

    I think its okay to learn another language - but I feel that you should be able to pick that other language.... My daughter, who is 5, is being forced to learn spanish because she is the ONLY white kid in her class (no exageration) because its easier to teach in spanish, so she has to learn as she goes......

    As I said before - the phone asking about the language options doesn't bother too much because its a business and people from all ove the world might be calling that company for whatever reason......what I DON'T like is when I call my bank and the first thing I hear is spanish and I have to wait to press option 2 to hear it in english....the bank is BANK OF AMERICA for christs sake!!!!!
  22. mistawiskas

    mistawiskas kik n a and takin names

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    Let's look at the real world. The reason employers hire illegals, is that they can pay them 5 bux an hour and not have to pay taxes, soc. security, workers comp and any othe 'legal' business costs. To pay a worker 10 bux an hour legal and above the table, it'll cost a minimum od 13.10 to employ that person. If benefits are part of the employment package, that same cost can be upwards of 22.50.

    Let's look at the damge that causes to the economy. If you were a business, say construction contractor, that does excellent work at a decent price, employing valuable, taxpayer workforce, were to put out a competitive bid against a company who relies on under-the-table employees, who's bid would be alot less? And who would people most likey choose? Say a bid of $5000 dollars for a 20'X30" deck by an up-an-up company compared to a $2500 bid by one with illegal, undocumented workers. For the builders the proffit margins are the same. One builder's employees are paying income tax and
    into social security system, but the other company's (who will end up with the bid) employee's are paying nothing into the system, living on not spending much to live here and sending 75% of the money they earn back to mexico......how does this equate to "good for the economy?
    "Good for the economy" equates to bringing outside money into our system, not hemorrhaging faster than outside money comes in. 3-4=-1....simple 5th grade math. Going after the employers of illegals may be the way to go, as it's a "supply and demand" issue. The supply of jobs fueled by industrial greed
    creates the demand for illegals.

    I don't pretend to even know what the best sollution is. I do know that this country is living in the problem and not the sollution. A fence will, more than likely, only benefit the contractors who build the thing and the illegals they hire to build it (ironic isn't it). We do, however, need to stop the hemorrhaging and look for real sollutions where the only thing that's happening now is just talk. How long would we be employed if all we did is just talk about the work we'll be doing rather that actually doing it? We'd get fired! Well, supposedly, our elected officials are employed by "we the people",
    they aren't doing much more than partisan bickering and talk. Fire their collective asses and get someone who will do the job. Sure, the job may be hard, but it wouldn't be called 'work' if it were easy.

    Mexico is supposed to be a "good neighbor" that's what they taught us in grade school. If this country put it's resources together to find a viable sollution to their problems in the form of helping them and getting them on their feet so that life was better for their citizens...that would be a sollution. How realistic is it? I have no idea, but it is only logical that the problem we see now wouldn't be an issue if the country they are leaving was as appealing as the country they want to illegally enter. Our problems, all our country's problems are the result of taking the easy way out and not doing the hard work, making the hard decisions. Time to pay the piper folks.
  23. WoodButcher

    WoodButcher just me

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    You ALL make good points including chapel, who's view may be different but still valid. Is there a way to get these thoughts to those that will change things? "Vote them all out" is one idea but if you do that who is left to organize the festivities? I say run it like a keg party, Big fence, charge admission and toss the unrulies!
  24. chapel

    chapel Jolly Bolly Fo-Folly Staff Member

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    First off, I know that an open border would not happen, no country has ever opened their borders completely to anyone. I just take that stance because that would allow true freedom. As far as a real solution, its hard to say what would work. Rounding them up and deporting them isn't going to work, and is just going to cost more and more money. Building a huge fence, which is what they are doing, is just going to cost a lot of money and not solve the issue unless they built the fence across the whole border. So thats two solutions that really suck.

    The government is trying to force companies to use a federally controlled list of people they can hire. Basically whoever is registered with the government as a citizen. That isn't too bad, because it would curb companies hiring illegals as they say, but that means we "citizens" need to be registered. I dont know if you understand the ramifications of that, but it increases our dependency on bureaucracy. We already have to use our social security numbers as a form of identification when they were only meant as a means to register for the social security program. In the next five years we will have a national id, one controlled by the federal government, one that will hold all things identifiable about ourselves and not to mention our histories. Privacy is something that is fleeting, and soon will be gone forever, its a sad time.

    Then there is the internal check points. So when I want to travel, inside america, I have to always be able to prove that Im a citizen. So what happens when you lose your wallet? You dont have any form of identification, and youre away from home? Do you think they will let you through the check point? Do you think the bureaucracy that is our government will actually have protections for its own citizens from being falsely accused as being an illegal alien. What if a security guard at one of the check points is having a bad day, wants to take it out on someone. Maybe that someone is you. Full body and cavity search, strip the car, so on and so forth. We will have no protections from our own government. Our ability to hold a job, travel, and well do anything will be dependent on whether or not we have our valid form of identification. Its all about control. There are alot of what if's, and it scares me.

    Now I want to touch on something that is even more scary than the above, although its apart of what Ive been talking about. Right now in america, more so day after day, it feels like pre-WWII Germany. Causing fear and doubt in their citizens, making them revile and hate immigrants, in this case Jews were their largest import (hehe). Which allowed them to pass laws and enact controls to basically round up and do with what they wanted to these people. Have you heard of ICE? Thats the Immigration and Customs Enforcement agency. They are not police, they are not military. They are not apart of the FBI, or any other known armed agency. No, it is a newly founded agency created to "control and enforce our immigration and custom laws." Armed men who's sole purpose is to round up and "deport" illegal immigrants. Why I emphasize deport, is because we dont know what they do with them. They may say they deport them, but no one knows for sure. The secret prisons and holding facilities this country has around the world, I wouldnt be surprised if we were sending them there. Doesn't it scare you though, that there is another armed force, who is not meant to protect or serve, but to enforce immigration and custom laws? Who do they answer to, what kind of control is over them? It feels like the gestapo.

    To further explain about why now more than ever, america feels like nazi germany, is because of our president, his officers and the publics lack to do anything about it. He has single handedly given the presidency the most power of all the three branches. He can selectively detain and imprison people for no more reason than he felt like it. It sounds alot like a dictatorship. Who was another dictator that increased his power while in office... yeah that was Hitler. Im not going to go on anymore, I think Ive made my point. I hope you at least understand it, I dont expect you to change your minds or side with me, just that you read and maybe see the light.
  25. mistawiskas

    mistawiskas kik n a and takin names

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    The following is totally in my honest opinion and are derived of emotion rather than fact:
    Alot of times, the simplest plan is the best plan. This is unlikely to happen in a country where complicating the shit out of taking a dump, is a way of life:D . Canada has a good screening process, we ought to seek their council and involve them, as what happens here also can affect them in the long run.
    The way things are going to change is probably going to have to be in this order:
    1) fix our own problems
    2) help our neighbors
    3) help our friends
    4) work to make the rest of the world better
    5) form the Federation of Planets
    6) form the Star Fleet

    The way I see it actually coming down today:
    1) make the almighty dollar the reason for everything, including life itself
    2) buy and/or bribe our freinds
    3) force the world to see things our way
    4) diss our neighbors if they don't agree
    5) 'TALK' about fixing problems at home
    6) watch star trek on TV


    Who makes the decisions on 'our' behalf? Are they representing us as their job discription implys? If they aren't doing what they were hired to do what is our options? We can't honestly blame the poor people from other countries, that just want to survive and possibly have a better life, now can we? We as a nation, yes, all of us, are part of the problem and we alone must be part of the solution.

    BTW...."the festivities" don't appear to have any organization in their present form.:p