Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by mistawiskas, Apr 24, 2010.
This is the best model available: ( )
Who is that suspcious looking person on the right? :-\" *runs away*
And so it begins....
As this type of screening spreads pressure will increase on the states that don't do it. The populations of illegals will start shifting to states who don't ask for verification and the support costs for them will be crushing. Ideology tends to go bye-bye once the bankruptcy kicks in.
It should be interesting to see illegal immigrants showing up in Hawaii! or Alaska...
It should be interesting to see how prices rise in areas like construction and agriculture if the supply of cheap labor dries up.
The reality is that the housing market is still mostly zero, and that the downed economy had reduced the demand for landscaping and other similar trades. I read a while back that the influx of illegals had already started to drop because of the lack of jobs. Hell, maybe that's why Arizona finally took such a drastic step. They had a reduced need for them = fuck 'em. Cold blooded...
But I like it. great theory MSP. Like a cheap hookers, use them then toss them aside.
Funny you should mention this. That's exactly what it feels like when you loose your job and see illegals working for the company you used to work for while you collect unemployment insurance.
MSP is right, there'll be no noticable price increase in the cost of homes. The prices that are, will still be inflated under the bubble that was. It wasn't the labor that drove the cost of buying a home up
between 1970 and 2006. http://www.legalhelpers.com/bankruptcy-articles/financial-deregulation-article.html. Labor and materials.....Ha! The construction loans we were operating on to build what ended up as 1 million dollar homes was 250,000 (that is total cost: lot,developement, materials and labor). Who made the money?
The lowly construction worker made peanuts compared to what bankers and development investors made. And they were the ones getting hurt and wearing out their bodys to make the houses so.
I didn't say I liked it, just that it was the reality. I have compassion for them but it doesn't change my opinion for defending our borders and enforcing the law.
I have to come in and burst everyone's bubbles:
There's little to support the economist's claims also. How do you count ghosts? How do you account for money the "ghosts" make? How do you account for money people don't make? Sounds like udder politically motivated BS to me.
These guys don't just hang out at the depot for the shitzengiggles. Every single dollar these clowns make. is a dollar i don't make.
we should just have illegals wear some kind of badge on their shirts and then later on take them at night and put them in special camps while the government works out some kind of plan on what to do with them.
I completely agree. Illegally entering most countries in the world gets you worse then US's plan of just being a migrant worker for years and maybe being deported. Thats the worst ,being kicked back out. Hell by the time dinner rolls around they could be back in the US. It's a messed up system.
Wrap your head around this one:
Look at the date this came about. Exactly six months before the housing crash. My jobs were canceled and all dried up overnight, the first week of october '07. I haven't worked full time since. Meanwhile, right next door to me, right now, is a crew of four mexicans working full time doing my type of work. since feb. this year alone, the neighbors, (HOH being a rich egal mexican immigrant) have had more hours of work done on their place by illegals, than I have had in three years total. I ain't buying any "economists say...." bullshit.
Not bursting my bubble at all. Jobs or not I'm for defending our borders and laws. I guess that's the basic question in this debate - does a state or federal government have the right to control the flow of people through their territory, or to ask people for identification? It's a rhetorical question of course, because of course they do. All of the other stuff, the flag waving, the "They took our jorbs!", the bleeding hearts, etc, are all just a sideshow to the fundamental question for which there is no doubt.
Well yah, I'm just trying to point out that it is simply wrong to blame illegal immigrants for job losses overall, but many are doing it.
As was said in this thread already, states like Arizona especially have used illegal labor for years and benefited from it in the form of reduced cost/increased profits. They are just latching onto racism and scapegoating the people now that the housing boom is over and there is less demand for the labor.
Wiskas, no doubt you have been affected by illegal labor, but the articles are about general trends that make up the overall picture in America, there will always be individuals who are hurt by it, and unfortunately you are one of them. It sucks and it doesn't make it right, but one data point does not make a trend.
And local property owners get this in return:
greed is what causes job losses. Financial industry greed caused the housing bubble and subsequent crash. The form of job losses the construction industry suffered before the crash was already costing
an assload of wages to legit American construction workers that pay taxes, social security, and medicare. In some areas the wage for American construction workers was lower than 9 bux an hour due to competition from unscrupulous contractors who bid jobs lower because they use illegal/undocumented workers. (I'm talking right here in southern oregon, let alone points south of here) They tree trimmers here are mostly illegals, perhaps that is a "data point" that get's your attention. Construction is not a local trend.
Economists didn't see the last market crash? or did they?
But mistawiskas' situation completely destroys this claim:
All you need is one affected American worker and that claim falls apart. You may want to talk about trends and generalities, but that would be hypocritical coming from you.
Irreguardless, as of last year, the trends aren't my problem.
I've adjusted my life, i'm in a good enough place for the remainder of my days. These trends are not going to do any more damage to my way of life.
It's your generations that get to deal with them. If you can live with what is inevitable (short of enough young people caring enough to change it) so be it.
For every legit, skilled construction worker that can't justify doing that dangerous of a job for minimum wage, there'll be that much more competition for your jobs.
There's more than enough federal funding for dislocated workers, so degrees are taking the place of 30 pound tool bags and the saws of dismemberment.
How is the 'trends forcast' looking now? There are currently millions of contruction workers seeking new fields of employment and taking this oportunity to get IT degrees, nursing degrees,
business/financial degrees etc. What happens to those wages when there are more job seekers than jobs in other ocupations? Do good work, kiss the right asses and stab the most backs. Because a dislocated, retrained, educated ex-construction worker is joining your fields of employment. These aren't "trends", these are realities and are happening right now.