House passes climate-change bill

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Caucasian Hammer, Jun 26, 2009.

  1. Caucasian Hammer

    Caucasian Hammer Jesus, Man.

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  2. Commissar Smersh

    Commissar Smersh 2020 Staff Member

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    Yay for progressive legislation. :)
  3. ivwshane

    ivwshane We are all old school!

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    Has anyone read it and analyzed it?


    I really hope congress had more than fives hours to look at it and debate it. I know it was six months in the making but what did the making exactly consist of?

    Hastily passed legislation with good intentions doesn't make for good legislation.
  4. Caucasian Hammer

    Caucasian Hammer Jesus, Man.

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    Well they stuck on the 300 page amendment at 3am yesterday. How many people do you think read and understood it before it went to vote? I'm not looking forward to these new higher taxes and gas prices. I can barely afford to pay for school as it is with my hours being cut at Stop and Shop because business is slower. How is this helping the American citizen right now when scientists still claim "global warming" is a myth?
  5. GRP

    GRP oh snap

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    I don't see any reason for this, especially during a recession.
  6. MSP

    MSP Haunting a dead forum...

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    I'm for environmentally responsible government and society, and have made personal sacrifices to that end. But I really hope this isn't the pie-in-the-sky POS that I think it is. I mean, paradigm shifts like this take time, and we're already making progress. Throwing our economy further down the rabbit hole right now is not a good idea. Hard to innovate and create the "green" economy when you're broke!
  7. mistawiskas

    mistawiskas kik n a and takin names

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    As with all good legislation. The guys and gals we hired and supposed to be looking out for our good (I'm talking about protecting our only planet)
    had to be bribed up the ass to do thier jobs. nothing new here. The 300 pages protects some things.....namely corporate bribes political contributions.
  8. PencilWntGtU2TheMoon

    PencilWntGtU2TheMoon Junior Member

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    Its for the planet and the children. Not for us. Think bigger.
  9. MSP

    MSP Haunting a dead forum...

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    My uber-conservative, Rush Limbaugh listening friend says it's going to cause energy bills to double. I call bullshit on that, because I for one would take my money and just generate my own. And let's face it, immediate and double the cost for energy due to taxes would cause a violent revolution.
  10. integra00

    integra00 Junior Member

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    Starting a small fire in ur moms panties
    I think the people that could pay it would .. and those that cant will just go on government assistance or do without.
  11. MSP

    MSP Haunting a dead forum...

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    There we go, that's the answer. Another step towards socialism.
  12. mistawiskas

    mistawiskas kik n a and takin names

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    I've read just enough of the text to see that there are definate benefits in the ways of new industries and jobs. The ammendments are worrysome though. Those just go to proove that the winners in the present energy scam scheme are getting a boost from the passage and there are definate corporate ties and pulls on our elected for the people, by the people representatives. We are not the peolpe being represented. as long as that is the case, nothing profound will change. We'll be relegated to token bones for
    yet another era.

    The last era, long before most of you were born, there was a change. A select few of us tweakerz remember those daze. Political change took place as a result of a quiet revolution:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o4fWN6VvgKQ

    This is the mess we're up against now not to mention the warming issue:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGO42gvCSPI
  13. ATIzed

    ATIzed New Member

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    It's disgusting, but not shocking that this bill was passed at a time when we are on the edge of a depression and people are already struggling to get by. They might as well pass a huge federal tax on everything to help create jobs to fight the flying spaghetti monster and reduce our dependence on his tasty tomato sauce. That would make as much sense financially as passing this bill now does. Let's see what's next on the check list for the financial wizards in Washington, fixing the enormous debt Bush gave us by tripling it with a nationalized health care plan.
  14. GRP

    GRP oh snap

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    qfmft

    Really. If you want to raise taxes, raise taxes. Spend less. Get the defecit down. Don't make fun of the assholes before you when you're continuing the same money down the hole policies they did.

    I mean, damn.
  15. mistawiskas

    mistawiskas kik n a and takin names

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    B-b-b-b-b-but, i like tomatoe sauce ;).
    There also has to be the admision, that what we all actually did when times were good.............was not change our energy policies.........we made them worse. i'm convinced that the only wrong time to change for the better, is
    tomarrow and the only wrong way to do it, is not to do it.
  16. ATIzed

    ATIzed New Member

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    That sounds great, except that I cannot ignore the reality that this is the ever-growing, morbidly obese, corrupt, seemingly bumbling and incompetent, somewhat intrusive, and frequently self-serving US government we're talking about, in charge of a country in financial free fall, a dollar on the rocks with some saying there is at least the possibility for two scenarios in terms of hyper inflation-either the Weimar Republic or Zimbabwe. We have jobs and companies already going oversees which could possibly be accelerated by this bill. There are no doubt many people just scraping by as it is with current energy costs, so what happens to those living on the edge if (hopefully not) prices skyrocket due to the financial burden as a result of this bill alone, not even accounting for other factors like a falling dollar?

    Next of course, the current governmental financial obligations now possibly exceed the world's GDP according to those that have gone through the numbers, so if that is a reality, then even if we open a portal with CERN to a parallel universe with another United States hopefully not in as bad of shape as ours, and managed to persuade them to contribute, we'd still be short by a lot. We're also still involved in two active wars with their enormous costs, with Afghanistan probably being a never-ending financial abyss and "hopefully" a reduction in our financial obligations to rebuilding Iraq, have we or will we get any financial reimbursement from Iraq ever, who knows?

    There has been talk of taxes on employees' health benefits being considered amidst a nationalized health care plan in the works that could cost ~3 trillion, with estimates of ~600 billion in taxes (the numbers may be off, could be lower, but probably not high enough) on top of the ~1 trillion "stimulus" on top of the ~700 billion before that. Throw in the government busted out auto industry, and who knows what other ideas the President and Congress come up with down the road in the future that have large price tags. Maybe the bottom line for the current administration and Congress in pushing and quickly passing expensive, most likely burdensome, and probably shady legislation--no doubt with perks to wet the appetite of various Congressional members thrown in here and there, following in the previous administration's footsteps, is "never waste a good crisis." Me personally, I'm just a little concerned.
  17. mistawiskas

    mistawiskas kik n a and takin names

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    Mkay, so we just continue down the road we were on? The road that led us here? As far as our jobs going to other countries, that started happening quite awhile ago with the NAFTA. Welcome to globalization. The big hope, is that these policies and laws will create an entirely new industrial influx of income and tax revenue. There was a time in this nation when taking those kinds of risks, making commitments, and getting it done, was a way of life and resulted in this nation rising to the top, both finanially and militarily.
    We are not on top any longer with the exception of our military. This is our one chance to rise to the top again.
    Nobody wants to change, but that doesn't negate the need to change. Our present demands are getting harder to meet, and our future projected demands cannot be fullfilled by present sources. Also, and most important, is this little thing called carbon footprint. This planet can only deal with so much carbon. It is already out of balance and getting worse exponentially. These policies just now being voted on are "incentives' to industry to head a new direction. there's going to be a bunch of negative hysteria about funding these changes, but that's all it is....hysteria. It is a conundrum indeed. we can't afford to change and we can't afford not to. I'm more concerned as to what the addiciton of easy money for the energy industry has been and what it has pushed that industry to do, than I am for buying every little convenience my heart desires. we will still be a very affluent nation, we may just have to give up buying that second or third I Phone for now.
  18. ATIzed

    ATIzed New Member

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    A different road would be nice considering the mess in which we find ourselves, in part because of the risk that led to the mortgage collapse and subsequent bailouts by our government. If you had an acquaintance or friend in your life with a track record of being self-interested, greedy, irresponsible, corrupt, untrustworthy, deceitful, incompetent and prone to failure like the US government, come asking for money at a time when you were just getting by day-to-day financially, would you lend him or her even $100 of your money to risk on some grandiose venture which could hopefully work and give you a return, but could flop, in which case this friend would come back begging for more money, or even worse this person just stole the money right from the start and lied a bit about what they were going to be doing? I would find it difficult to do. Unfortunately, as much as wish it was, I myself don't believe the reality of our current situation is all hysteria, though some aspects may get played up to help push certain political agendas, nor that the cost associated with this bill is all hysteria since everyone seems to agree it will cost something, it's just whether you want to go with the low estimates or high estimates where the US government is concerned, and will it ultimately do any real good, create a lot of jobs and a whole new economy, nobody knows for sure. If the bill doesn't die in the Senate, and it is implemented I have to hope it works because I don't know how many more hits we can take, I just have my doubts.
  19. GRP

    GRP oh snap

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  20. mistawiskas

    mistawiskas kik n a and takin names

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    What is different with these 'tax incentives" than those of other administrations?have you read the parts of the bill that discribes the funding or are we having another panic via media hype/slant that calls every change a tax on the people? from what i've gleaned by looking at the programs and where the funding and incentives are going, the mindset of the administration seems to be'spend a dollar and make a 10 buck bill in return. i really havent noticed any boost in funding for the lazy fucks that don't want to work. i have seen that there seems to bwe a concerted effort to close some loopholes, therefor "raising" taxes for the upper crust and industry. The people's portion (token bones) of the stimulus or "investment act" as it's officially known as, seems to be designed to gain the guv more than is spent. case in point: A new program is paying for 90% of some targetted college courses for me. These aren't just any courses. they are classes in business, book keeping, procurement of GSA contracts, E commerce, green collar certs and contractor law and licensing. why are they targeting out of work construction workers ( the first to suffer, the ones that'll suffer the longest and last to recover)? simple, because the two grand they'll be forking over fo tuition, will bring in a couple 1000% return because it'll get these millions out from under the table and get them going with some clear advantages in a better setup business paying taxes and hiring employees. i've checked out a few of the things the media are steering people towards believing are 'new taxes'. They aren't, they are a few bux injected into targetted areas to steer towards a new direction. This is what i've noticed. I don't know what's going on behind closed doors, but I suspect it's biz as usual. What I've seen though, is a more common sense tack that this country should have been on all along. It's as though Lee Iaccoka was hired to straiten out a few things and kick some asses. don't get me wrong, i still don't have trust for the guv'nor, but it looks to be different. When I see the waste in government cut in half (at least) then, and only then, will I fully believe that we're not being subjected to smoke and mirrors. It does appear that the way this money is being thrown around is different from other times of throwing taxpayers dollars at a given target. Time will tell.