Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by -=Lurker=-, May 27, 2010.
Bitter Ballmer? LOL
This is great actually, the more choices for the consumer the better. But most of Apple's money is iTunes / iPhone / iPod related, isn't it? In personally computer terms I don't think it's even remotely close.
Yea, he article talks about that. With the success of the iPhone and the introduction of the iPad, it's only a matter of time before Apple releases something to bridge the gap between media device and home computer since these people should be well versed in the Apple GUI's. Just my opinion though.
Oh yeah, they definitely have the potential to become THE personal computer. I just wonder how well they would fair as the mainstream. So much of their image and marketing is about being different, "Think different!", fight conformity, etc. What will they do should they finally become the thing they've been throwing sledgehammers at?
Really? From a company that invented 1 product and somehow convinced people they're still inventing things when all they do is add a new feature to the same product every six months? I certainly don't think Microsoft is making any strides forward either, but to say Apple is creating something new is pretty far reaching. They made a really good music player, then for the next 10 years made the same music player into a phone, and then made it into a really big version of said phone but without the phone.
it's funny because it's true. nobody really is creating new technology these days. all it is is updated or upgraded. the only thing Apple does better is marketing themselves to make users THINK they are innovating. The right image is the most important thing on the planet to have.
Microsoft wins either way. Back in '97 they gave Apple $150 million to keep them afloat...with a promise on a healthy return I'm sure. Don't know if Apple paid it off or if Microsoft still has some part/stock in Apple...
IMHO: they're both just one big marketting scam. Innovation, true innovation has stopped. Repackaging, crappy product image damage control and related bullshit is the name of the game. Market share is way more important than catering to their roots, namely geeks like us. Same thing happened to facebook and everything else the real techies used to hold dear.
Derail: What's the big deal about the iPad. The name alone annoys.
'I- anything' is anoying.
(e: after reading wanted to clarify: not making a dig at you just sounded funny)
I wonder, though, if Apple will be able to continue this growth. Their main shctick is the iPhone right now. It's pretty much the phone to beat right now. However, the Android market is expanding really fast. I agree with what someone said in this thread. Apple just upgrades their stuff and hypes it up to be a new innovation and people buy it. The sad thing is, most of the stuff that'll be in the new iPhone is already out for Android (multitasking, removable battery, HD video, video conferencing). I've got an iPhone right now but I'd love to try an Android-based phone. Unfortunately, there's not really one for AT&T unless you wanna dish out the $600 for a Nexus1. Sorry, just rambling. All in all, I don't think Apple will be keeping this growth going for that long.
Speaking of the ipad I see the Chinese have brought out there own one the iped.
So you can buy a clone of the ipad with Android for $105
LOL @ “wall street values” FFFFFF that.
its been about 10 years since the tech bubble, just about enough time for most “investors” to forget it ever happen and get completely crazy again.
I'm not sure I'll ever be that bullish on tech stocks, its really hard to evaluate whats a tech company is really wroth since most of there future earnings are based on intellectual property and future innovation.
"On any given day, the stock market is a voting machine,’’ he said, and only ‘‘in the long run is it a weighing machine."
he's absolutely correct, though thats actually a famous Benjamin Graham qoute and not something he made up
The key words in the articles are “wall street values” .....tell me again why anyone should put any thought into what wall street think? Because of their spectacular track record? How people still look to wallstreet for investment advice is beyond me, its a giant cirle jerk of bullshit.
Wallstreets “value” is determined by totalling up the price of the company's shares. That is by no means in any logical way a reasonable determination of a company real value. For reference the article plainly states that Microsoft has twice the cash holdings and almost triple the net income of apple, but is praising apple for trumping microsoft? ](*,)
Wallstreet "voting" had valued apple at $10(!) a share 6 years ago. Now its around 260. where is the logic there? Have they evolved that dramatically to justify a 25 fold increase ? They're making abit of ground with computers sure, but whats the user %? something like 7% mac, 93% PC if that? In the corporate world mac has almost 0% usage and thats where the real money is since business always need to be paying for legit software and are on contracts, MS has a HUUUUGE moat where computers are concerned and they have alot of other innovative stuff going on there plate aswell. What does apple really have? A decent MP3 player and a phone thats popular right now.... I dont think the hype is justified AT ALL, but if you think you've met some crazy apple fanboys, talk to an apple stock fanboy. Jesus.
For the record I'm not pro Microsoft either, I don't own them at all directly and as i said generally avoid tech stocks other then index holdings.
I weep for the average joe, constantly bombarded by so much marketing and hype and bullshit like this, its easy to see why so many people get caught up in all of it.
I concure 100%. It's a slanted report about slanted hype. Wall street totally lost my trust and any credence they ever had after the tech crash. From the sidelines i watched the same thing happen to banks
in the housing crash. Only difference is that the US taxpayer and their offspring for, at least three generations has to bail them ass hats out. Nobody bailed me out when the techs crashed.
I think its funny that people still do the Apple vs MS thing. At this point they are barely rivals. MS is content on using OS X features, and Apple is content on using Windows features that make sense. Apple computers will never beat out MS based computers. There are multiple reasons, one being that there is no business focus, another is the OS is tied to the hardware. As others have said, MS still makes more money and has more money. Stocks are only one measurement, and not a very accurate one because it is usually based on hype and not on anything substantial. Apples stock will continue to climb until the new iPhone is released, and if for some reason the news is bad about the iPhone, the stock goes down, because its based on hype and not logic.
The real competition though is between Apple and Google. It is entertaining to me though that people think Google is encroaching on Apple with their phones, but in reality Google bought the Android OS years before the iPhone was out. Take that Apple is also trying to get into Googles markets with advertising and similar things. The problem though for Apple is that Google doesn't lose if Apple dominates the market, only if they lock Google out. That is why Android exists the way it does, it is to keep a market open for Google to do what it does best, advertise.
Wiskas, Google is the one company that continues to cater to the geek crowd while also moving into mainstream. Google listens to us, and has been very fast on making changes to services/products that have problems. So I still think we have a bastion and that is Google.
thus far, anyhow
Of course, but being realistic is one thing, being skeptical and against Google when they haven't done anything wrong to me is just well wrong.
The pursuit of ad dollars has ruined far greater corporations. Thus far google has balanced the task well. But all it takes is a slight, very slight change in personell in the upper tiers. BTW, I'm not against google any more than I used to be "against" TLC, HGTV, Micro$oft, AIG, etc. Things change....that's a fact. All we can hope is that Google does not loose the spirit that made it what it is today.
Of course. I was mostly talking about another person that I talked to online, and by talking to had a long ass argument about google and apple. She thought google was on the verge of evil and that apple was good. I don't know about you, but apple is in no way good, maybe not evil, but not good. Google continues to show they have peoples interests in mind. They may be small gestures, but they are gestures none the less and usually not prompted by anything.
That's why I'ma hoping that they stay the course.
They(google) have a win+win going on.
Apple cannot even be concidered in the same way.
The one thing I see that would change Google, is a competitor that's concidered a rival in the ways of innovation and philosophy.
Google took the path least traveled, so to speak. They were willing to resort to a quality, consumer oriented product and didn't need to
resort to slams and scams to sell thier product. how often do we see that pan out in today's biz climate? If they have a direct competitor
as Apple and Microsoft are, things will unfortunately change. Until that happens, we have nothing to worry about with the exception of corporate greed.
Thats the thing though, they have taken the path that no other company seems to take. They also seem to want to position themselves to where they can continue fighting the good fight as it were without doing bad things. Constant disruption for those incumbent companies while making things better for the people. Who knows where they will be in 5 years, 10 years, or even 20. I just don't see them doing wrong for the next couple of years. They are a company that if they did wrong, it wouldn't take much for people to lose faith and it would crumble.
Here’s the thing… I’m a long time believer in Google; I use to refer to my religious beliefs as a Googlian infact. I still have a lot of faith in their ability innovate and stay on top but now that Google is a publically traded company, its hard to say that going forward they will always have “the peoples” best interest in mind.
They do right now, sure, and that joyful cheery imagine is working great for them, but Google no longer only answers to Google. They now also answer to their shareholders and there is no “do good” criteria to be a share holder, only “have money, want more”.
Now I’m playing abit of the devils advocate here, having a bottom line, you’re finances in the public eye and shareholders you must answer to doesn’t mean you’re suddenly going to start doing evil malicious things in the name of money, there are a lot of great, ethical, sustainable public company’s out there. the fact that anyone can look up all of goggles financial information is probably a good thing from an ethical standpoint aswell. also AFAIK google is in fact still largely owned by Google employee’s, but its certainly a lot harder to maintain a mantra of “do good” when a portion of your company’s ownership is not your own. Shareholders have voting right’s and if goggles ability to turn out profits starts to go away, even temporarily it will be interesting to see what happens.
I also have the similar concerns with Googles stock as I do with apple, though I think their revenue stream is a lot more concrete and sustainable and its hard to see anyone really taking away much of goggles thunder. They do what they do very well, are always expanding and are a household name but Tech companies are fairly notorious for being “growth” stocks and not paying a dividend, which to me is almost essential for stock ownership. Stock prices going forward will always be volatile; a dividend provides a steady income stream amongst the madness that is the market. A lack of dividend plus all the hype and publicity Google gets makes me nervous. /boring
This stock factor tends to confirm my concerns.