anyone think of the consequences: GMO/Biotech crops?

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by mistawiskas, Jan 11, 2011.

  1. mistawiskas

    mistawiskas kik n a and takin names

    Messages:
    30,145
    Trophy Points:
    98
    Location:
    Rogue Valley Oregon
    It's getting harder and harder to find decent vegetable seeds that are not GMO/bioengineered seed that will not produce seed for next year. Anything listed as a "hybrid".....forget about it. I've tried and failed with every one. Corn: hybrid= seeds from, make franken-corn, with bad yields.
    Our whole food supply is this way.
    http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE7083CA20110111?feedType=RSS&feedName=environmentNews&rpc=76
    http://www.ers.usda.gov/publications/aer810/aer810.pdf
    These crops can contaminate organic crops and wipe out those genetics to where all
    we have left is biotech food supplies under the control of who-knows-who.
    Interesting map:http://www.absp2.cornell.edu/resources/bio-engineeredcrops/

    map_bio-enginecrops.jpg
  2. Goofus Maximus

    Goofus Maximus Too old to be this dumb!

    Messages:
    7,158
    Trophy Points:
    78
    Location:
    St. Louis area, but in Illinois
    Aside from the really basic biodiversity problems, and farmers not being able to grow their own seed-stock, and what generally happens when GMOs escape their containment, like the killer-bees and fire-ants before them? Not much... :D
  3. Sparky

    Sparky ¿sdooɥʍ

    Messages:
    7,172
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    East Haddam, CT
    It blows my mind that the world opened the door for Monsanto and the other GMO companies. It's so obviously unethical it hurts.
  4. mistawiskas

    mistawiskas kik n a and takin names

    Messages:
    30,145
    Trophy Points:
    98
    Location:
    Rogue Valley Oregon
    There's a reason that there's an organic seed vault(s) in Europe. A place where all seeds are archived and stored. Doomsday theorists have
    claimed it's because of 2012. But the biochem/tech companies know the real reason. We're being forced into dependency on manufactured seed
    that will not perpetuate the plant species. Every human will have to rely on monsanto and the rest of these: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_biotechnology_companies
    for food supply. The inundation is nearly complete and the patents on these seeds already utilized, are about to expire. That mean there's going to be a shitload of
    "generics" bio-seed on the market with thier own genetic "tweaks" applied to them. We're fucked.
  5. Goofus Maximus

    Goofus Maximus Too old to be this dumb!

    Messages:
    7,158
    Trophy Points:
    78
    Location:
    St. Louis area, but in Illinois
    You can almost hear the execs at Con Agra and ADM doing that Wayan's brothers skit "Mo' money!"

    Monsanto is the big boy on the block, mostly due to it's line of roundup-resistant seed, which is ironically the basis for "green" low/no till farming methods. The reign of Roundup is coming to an end, however, since the weeds are themselves developing resistance to roundup (just like in the abuse/over-use of antibiotics; nature is adapting).

    In the end, we WILL wipe ourselves out, all by ourselves, and the bacteria, algae, and cockroaches will show the universe who is TRULY at the top of the evolution chain, and it ain't us! ;)

    Who has mo money than they know what to do with? The Gub MINT! (Really not far different from how ADM, with their corn subsidies, operates!)
    [video=youtube;7jukQX2pl2Q]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jukQX2pl2Q[/video]
  6. tex

    tex jive turkey

    Messages:
    4,177
    Trophy Points:
    53
    Location:
    ATX
    Are the seed sellers lying about it or what? A quick google for "organic seeds" and perusing the websites looks like its pretty easy to find them: http://www.highmowingseeds.com/

    and hybrid corn looks like its just a cross of 2 different types? the ones that thrive generally having better yields?
  7. Goofus Maximus

    Goofus Maximus Too old to be this dumb!

    Messages:
    7,158
    Trophy Points:
    78
    Location:
    St. Louis area, but in Illinois
    Quite simply, the commercial seed market for large-scale operations is what Whiskas is talking about, rather than the sellers for small-scale operations and individual gardeners, for which one can still find a sufficient quantity of legacy seeds from small-time producers like highmowingseeds.

    Oh, and the word "hybrid" can cover a lot of territory, from the crossing of two similar strains of corn, to out-and-out GM chimeras, containing DNA from plants or bacteria that never grew either ears nor kernels! Mostly the problem is that a large portion of the seed produced now, is of a few standard hybrid varieties, so there is much less diversity, and one disease/parasite can wipe out a huge chunk of crops.
  8. tex

    tex jive turkey

    Messages:
    4,177
    Trophy Points:
    53
    Location:
    ATX
    Then don't buy from large scale operations. There are 5 or 6 different farmers markets here every weekend, plus at least 3 organic/local-grown grocers that I know of. Seems trivial to avoid the stuff if you don't like it

    and if anything, that is growing. in houston by my parents there are now a number of farmers markets. growing up, there were none. The whole go-local/organic/healthy is causing a big backlash against this, I think we will be seeing less and less of it
  9. mistawiskas

    mistawiskas kik n a and takin names

    Messages:
    30,145
    Trophy Points:
    98
    Location:
    Rogue Valley Oregon
    If it says "hybrid" in the discription, it will not produce usable seed for next year. This is the idea, moreso than higher yields. The motivation for higher yields is not to drive prices down, it's to develope worldwide dependence. Hybridized seeds and plants can still be concidered "organic" http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090310131813AA8aX0C. The term "organic" means that there are no chemicals or, at least, man made chemicals are used. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organic_food#Pesticides_and_farmers. For the most part, "organic vegetables" are just a sales ploy just like marketting simply by using the word "green". There are so many legal scams out there, food and renewable/sustainable energy is so corrupted that youi really have to do a large amount of research before you buy.....who's going to do that?

    Heirloom seed are the organics that will produce seed for consecutive generations. Those are really low in supply. There are places that sell them, but those are all gone really early, usually by the end of the previous growing season.
  10. tex

    tex jive turkey

    Messages:
    4,177
    Trophy Points:
    53
    Location:
    ATX
    that site i linked is not jiving with your definitions:
    http://www.highmowingseeds.com/organic-seed-definitions.html

    also:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heirloom_plant
    http://aggie-horticulture.tamu.edu/archives/parsons/vegetables/seed.html

    Sorry, I am not trusting what one asshat on yahoo said. From what i am reading, hybrid seed does not reliably produce the same plant, it may produce one of the ancestor types instead, but you still get a plant. It just has a good chance of being a lemon. I haven't seen anything besides that yahoo guy saying hybrid seeds don't reproduce. It sounds like it just generally doesn't work out for the best

    As soon as it gets a bit warmer we are going to plant a big tract in the back yard, i will have to try messing with this and see what happens, you piqued my curiosity
  11. Goofus Maximus

    Goofus Maximus Too old to be this dumb!

    Messages:
    7,158
    Trophy Points:
    78
    Location:
    St. Louis area, but in Illinois
    The problem with that is, if everyone did this, there wouldn't be enough. Large scale operations are large scale because they fill a huge demand! It's easy for a few individuals to buy legacy non-GMO items at their local farmer's market, but supplying enough wheat to supply all the bread the US eats would drive up the prices to astronomical green-blob levels.

    That site you linked to, as I mentioned, cannot supply a huge demand. It is a small operation, and it's existence doesn't refute Whiska's point. The fact that interest is growing, means that it's going from a very small percentage to a less small percentage.
  12. mistawiskas

    mistawiskas kik n a and takin names

    Messages:
    30,145
    Trophy Points:
    98
    Location:
    Rogue Valley Oregon
    While the supply hasn't changed, I may add. Many that are growing heirloom seed are even stockpiling them. Thus reducing the supply to the consumer further.
    Has anyone ever tried growing anything from hybrids, fresh run lily miller seed? Or any major brand sold at home/garden stores? Just ry it, see what you get. I did and got
    frankenveggies in 60% of attempts and nearly non edible cross species in others. Winter squash was really fun, I'm here to tell you. Out of 5 types of seed from hybridized
    plants from lily miller seed, I got no less than12 varieties of non edible frruit and only three edible types that were 1/10 the size they normally should have been.
    Similar results with corn, beans and peas. Chard, Carrots and beets didn't even produce seed at all. Try to live on that kind of yield.

    Simply hybridizing plants is not even where most of our future grief is going to come from. GMO= fucking with the whole genome of a species. Tailoring the genetic structure to do whatever is wanted. We have entered a new era after learning to crack genomes. The main yeilds come from huge, and I do mean huge agricultural corporations and the smaller farmers are pretty much forced to go along to get along if they want equipment, seed and fertilizers. It's a dangerous game being played on the people of the world.