A new age of reason beginning?

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by MSP, Jun 13, 2012.

  1. mistawiskas

    mistawiskas kik n a and takin names

    Messages:
    30,066
    Trophy Points:
    98
    Location:
    Rogue Valley Oregon
    But I'm not arguing anything, just stating an opinion. IMHO: parting the red sea is more of a story, being eaten by a big fish and surviving for three days inside is rather a stretch. Once the bullshit is filtered out, it's more of an instruction book mixed with lots of scare tactics. I too studdied for three years and have been ordained including standing behind the podium/pulpit. I choose to reject all but the spiritual principals which undisputably lead to a more fulfilling life regaurdless of how much or how little a person has. A closed and locked mind is what causes turmoil and defensiveness no matter what the relligeon or belief.
  2. HEAVY-D

    HEAVY-D Eh?!

    Messages:
    2,656
    Trophy Points:
    53
    Location:
    Dallas/Fort Worth
    Yes, we do make gods any god of our understanding is a god of our making.
    I need the same proof of a creators existence just like everyone else. My request is simple, I ask that the creator reveals herself/himself/itself to all of us all over the world so there will be no doubt. No one should have to die to meet the creator at least I don't think so. And could the creator write a holy book that doesn't force us to make unfounded assumptions? He wrote the 10 commandment surely he could write a simple book. :D

    When I use the word ignorant it means something we don't know not that people are stupid.

    I do understand believers because I was once one and to believe Adam and his female clone Eve were our parents is ignorance wouldn't you agree?
    Also I never said their is no creator I said that man made gods do not exist. For example Odin, Zeus and Ra exist as much as the god of the bible. We call it Norse Mythology, Greek Mythology and Egyptian Mythology so why don't we call Christianity and others by their rightful names it is Christian Mythology isn't it?

    Thanks for the wall of text by the way.

    I'm really enjoying this and will continue to enjoy the path I have taken. :D

    I know everyone is tired of my videos but they have helped me along the way. I've found these very helpful.

    http://www.youtube.com/user/TrustingDoubt/videos
  3. mistawiskas

    mistawiskas kik n a and takin names

    Messages:
    30,066
    Trophy Points:
    98
    Location:
    Rogue Valley Oregon
    The opening of one's mind is the key. The world needs to have an open mind, like that's ever going to happen.
    It's just not fashionable to think for one's self or run outside the herd. In some places it's illegal and met with a death sentence.
    I refuse to be the person someone else wants me to be.
  4. MSP

    MSP Haunting a dead forum...

    Messages:
    29,575
    Trophy Points:
    78
    The burden of proof is on the believer, not the non-believer. I believe in invisible flying elephants that poop Pokemon cards, can you prove me wrong? I for one can't prove or disprove the existence of a higher being. What I object to are the organized religions of the world that claim they can. Words written in a book, by the hands men, allegedly inspired by some magical dude? Doesn't even come close to passing the sniff test.

    So to answer your question, what proof would satisfy me? Well that would be any proof at all. Anything that could be measured, observed, photographed, etc. Unless a higher power somehow announces himself, I suspect any real answers will come from science. Until then I think it's dangerous and foolish to fill in the blanks with make-believe.
  5. Goofus Maximus

    Goofus Maximus Too old to be this dumb!

    Messages:
    7,122
    Trophy Points:
    78
    Location:
    St. Louis area, but in Illinois
    I agree with MSP, with the proviso that EVERYONE is a believer, even if unbelief is the belief they believe in. :) I pray to the Pachydermal Pokepoop
  6. demonizeZ

    demonizeZ Junior Member

    Messages:
    1,069
    Trophy Points:
    53
    Interesting to have civil discussion about this subject.

    The burden of proof is on both side. I said it before, neither side can or cant prove or disprove the other. In simple rationality, when you have two contradicting statement. The correct one is, usually the one that can prove its legitimacy. Therefor the burden falls on both side. So any sort of conclusion can be reached.

    Anyone calming they can prove it. Then you need to understand what is there rational or irrational reasoning. If its not sufficient to you, it just means, that individual's proof wasn't sufficient for you. And require further analysis to reach any kind of conclusion, that will satisfy you. And by conclusion i mean proof one way or another.

    If you can quantify a being, then that being wouldn't be The God i think. A being that hold infinite knowledge and power as said. You think we human, with our limited understanding of math, science and other subject, should be able to quantify that kind of existence... To me The God would be a being that can't be understood/quantify by our knowledge.

    So here is what i am curious about. If a being do appear and shows its power, in a way you cant quantify it. But what you see It has done, you cant deny it either. And convinces the world that its god. And ask the world to become the follower of some particular religion that we have on Earth. Will you become its follower/religious person?
    Death is up for interpretation. Our understanding of death is simply all function of human body coming to an end... Or brain no longer functioning. What happens after we don't know. Since there inst sufficient data to compute an answer. I think Holy books aren't simple and ambiguous alot of places because, it give human/believer room to evolve and with that, there understanding of there books.
    I was talking about The God, that is talked about in holy books. Wasn't thinking of those other gods.
  7. nidex

    nidex Hood Rich

    Messages:
    5,742
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    THA GUNSHINE STATE
    I stick with my stance that organized religion is nothing more than a business that invests and profits on people's insecurities about death. More or less, just taking advantage of the believing population. If I did believe in a higher power (I don't, considering there is no proof like MSP said), I would worship on my own terms. I will not feed into the corrupt business that is organized religion.
  8. mistawiskas

    mistawiskas kik n a and takin names

    Messages:
    30,066
    Trophy Points:
    98
    Location:
    Rogue Valley Oregon
    I guess that's why there's a thing called "faith". It fills the void created by lack of hard evidence.
    I for one, believe that one day science and spirituality will merge as I think they are related to the point of being synonomous.
    "Relligeon" on the other hand, seeks to disproove anything that even hints at a contradiction to the accepted truth within those circles.
    The more I find out about the science of the universe and how it works, the more I disbelieve that it's all for nothing and everything is brought about by mear chance.
    call it anything you wish, but when I watch nature or look into the depth of the universe, I don't feel alone. i don't feel that it all came about by itself.
    I'm not about to close my mind and believe that my feelings are facts. That would stop me from experiencing more unity with things that are not of this
    place in time and space. Why would I want to stop learning and experiencing what there is to be had when all that's required is an open mind.
  9. HEAVY-D

    HEAVY-D Eh?!

    Messages:
    2,656
    Trophy Points:
    53
    Location:
    Dallas/Fort Worth
    Does anyone know the history of the god of the bible? This might shed some light on it. I read Yahweh was the god of war at one time which makes sense in the old testament but there's more.




    This is for those who pity me because I don't believe. Maybe this will help ease your mind.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&v=1LQd3M966tw&NR=1
  10. MSP

    MSP Haunting a dead forum...

    Messages:
    29,575
    Trophy Points:
    78
    Absolutely, this higher power might be in an alternate dimension that humans cannot observe. But that doesn't mean we can just fill in the blanks with our imagination, fabricate all these rituals and rules, make shit up. If this power can't be observed by men then it can't be observed by men. You can't have it both ways. This is the kind of mumbo jumbo I always get from folks with faith when the logic of their belief is pursued. Either you can observe and prove it or it doesn't exist. Even thin theories require some anecdotal evidence. Reasoning what the nature and origin of the universe might be is philosophy, a quest for answers. Distinctly different from religion, which claims to have answers.

    Absolutely. A creator, someone who could enlighten, extend my life beyond death, reveal the mysteries of the universe? Anyone who would reject a god like that would be an idiot. Even if the power was malignant, what real choice would anyone have? Anyway, this is why I categorize myself as "agnostic". I don't reject the idea of god, I just don't believe that the mind of man can fathom it, and that most organized religions are made up baloney.
  11. Goofus Maximus

    Goofus Maximus Too old to be this dumb!

    Messages:
    7,122
    Trophy Points:
    78
    Location:
    St. Louis area, but in Illinois
    I'm now trying to figure out how to let my cells know of my overarching presence, so they may bow down and worship me... I think it's that kind of problem.
  12. MSP

    MSP Haunting a dead forum...

    Messages:
    29,575
    Trophy Points:
    78
    ^^^ Worse. Your cells, unable to be aware of your presence at all, have fabricated all sorts of bullshit and are worshiping your colon by mistake.
  13. mullet1

    mullet1 Junior Member

    Messages:
    230
    Trophy Points:
    23
    all hail Goofus Maximus's colon: the great beyond.
  14. MSP

    MSP Haunting a dead forum...

    Messages:
    29,575
    Trophy Points:
    78
    The creepy thing is there are some homeless guys down near the bus station that worship his colon too... :eek:
  15. Goofus Maximus

    Goofus Maximus Too old to be this dumb!

    Messages:
    7,122
    Trophy Points:
    78
    Location:
    St. Louis area, but in Illinois
    You have to admire his guts! It's a pity he'll probably die from ulceration of his intestines. That's what happens when your colon is Holy...
  16. mistawiskas

    mistawiskas kik n a and takin names

    Messages:
    30,066
    Trophy Points:
    98
    Location:
    Rogue Valley Oregon
    pretty gutsy statements there :)
  17. HEAVY-D

    HEAVY-D Eh?!

    Messages:
    2,656
    Trophy Points:
    53
    Location:
    Dallas/Fort Worth
    Nidex you are correct organized religions are non-profit corporations that make a profit. Wait a minute, how do they get away with it?

    I luv you guys guts and all. :D

    When I was younger and dumberer the answer would be yes but now that I'm older and see things differently the answer is no. I would acknowledge him as the creator but I would not worship him because why would the most powerful being in the universe want or need us to worship them? Worshiping things is a human construct not a divine reality in my opinion.
  18. MSP

    MSP Haunting a dead forum...

    Messages:
    29,575
    Trophy Points:
    78
    DING DING DING. Exactly. Why would some cosmic superman set up such an elaborate and impossible to touch worship system, and why would he desire worship in the first place? The whole concept is so ridiculous, and yet so deeply ingrained in the human experience. How many more centuries before we'll be able to cast off this tribal residue and focus our energies on reality? So much money and energy lost to fantasy...
  19. Goofus Maximus

    Goofus Maximus Too old to be this dumb!

    Messages:
    7,122
    Trophy Points:
    78
    Location:
    St. Louis area, but in Illinois
    More to the point, would he notice our presence, any more than we notice the presence of any particular cell in our body at any one point in time? What about time scales? IS God(dess) in the space-time continuum, or outside it, beyond our ability to even infer? How many dimensions? Are we Mr. A. Flat from Flatland?
  20. HEAVY-D

    HEAVY-D Eh?!

    Messages:
    2,656
    Trophy Points:
    53
    Location:
    Dallas/Fort Worth
    Yep, I agree.
    The universe doesn't know we are here and why should it?
  21. demonizeZ

    demonizeZ Junior Member

    Messages:
    1,069
    Trophy Points:
    53
    Now that is interesting, so for some, an appearance of a divine being will be proof to follow some religion. And for some, it be another source of contradiction, that will require more investigation. Rationally i can understand why an ultimate divine being will appear to tell us what to follow. Since a divine being would just like to show the path of peaceful loving life to all. Devoid of war and suffering, things along those line. Because any one who reached a certain level of wisdom, looses meaning in materialistic world and only want to help other IMO.

    Its always interesting to find out peoples reasoning on why they are on which side. Now my personal view is very different too. After doing my research on religions. My conclusion was, they are far too inefficient. There definition of various things are far to simple, and boring. So i discarded all of them, it never was about proof or lack of proof. Even if a being of Divine existence appear, i wouldn't care to join its religion regardless of what it offers.
  22. demonizeZ

    demonizeZ Junior Member

    Messages:
    1,069
    Trophy Points:
    53
    From rational point of view, God that is said to have created every thing, will easily notices us. The question is will we notice it. Also for a being of that magnitude to appear, where we can perceive its existence before us. It most certainly dumb down its what ever divine power is, for lowly humans like us. Those assumption i made are on the bases that a being of Divine existence can easily manipulate shape and universe, on a level where we can be in absolute awe.

    Jumping in to metaphysics, i think it might be possible to feel every cell in our body. But the level of conscious required is not attainable by us at our current evolutionary level. IMO
  23. HEAVY-D

    HEAVY-D Eh?!

    Messages:
    2,656
    Trophy Points:
    53
    Location:
    Dallas/Fort Worth
    demonizeZ
    All I can say is try to see the universe as it is and not how you think it should be.
  24. mistawiskas

    mistawiskas kik n a and takin names

    Messages:
    30,066
    Trophy Points:
    98
    Location:
    Rogue Valley Oregon
    Did anyone besides me watch 'through the wormhole' last night?
  25. -=Lurker=-

    -=Lurker=- **BANNED**

    Messages:
    10,118
    Trophy Points:
    78
    Location:
    Salt Lake City, Utah
    You watch too much porn Wiskas.
    Commissar Smersh says thanks for this.