There's all sorts of relationship damaging shit in there, inter-country communications about Iran and North Korea, personal assessments of world leaders by our embassy personnel, etc. This is treason, and I for one will be glad when the special forces guys are pumping lead into the Wikileaks guys and whomever provided them with the information.
Think the leader is Australian, so it can't really be called treason. Now thr PFC that leaked it...yeah he'll be federal pound you in the ass prison for a long long time. What I don't understand, and I'm sure there's good reasons for it, is why wikileaks seems to have such a hard-on for American leaks lately. I mean surely they have some dirt to dig up on these other countries to be leaking?
Because we lead the pack in dirty trix and underhanded crap? I'm sure every corporation that took legal consequences for the damge caused by whistleblowers believes the same thing about treason. The lack of anonymity on the internets swings both ways. Wikileaks isn't doing anything that the objects of the leaks do. I abhore a "do as I say, not as I do" governmental attitude and MO. I have mixed feelings about the damage, but my first reaction is along the lines of: "don't do the crime, if you can't do the time......don't do it!" I don't tend to view this as treason as much as i see it as exposing the lies, dirty trix and illegalities that our modern culture thrives on. What really gets me is the ways in which governments are dealing with it. They are resorting to the same lies, deciept and wrangling of the population in a scramble to save face. Nothing changes, if nothing changes. I guess i'm different though. I want to know how deep the rabbit hole goes. It's the only way I can prepare for the consequences of our leaders actions. You know as well as i, that the perps of these actions won't be the one's who suffers when it all goes south. You and I will be in much the same way as the consequences of the risky investment schemes of a couple years ago. It's like: how underhanded and evil would people's actions be if they could be as evil as they want knowing other people would be the one's going to hades for their actions?
Crackpipe, they mean 7x in size. Actual amount of documents being released. As per this article, here are the 5 top revelations from this leak (for now): http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Glob...s-Top-5-revelations/How-the-US-sees-the-world
Well yeah, not treason for them per-se. But I'd still expect their government to hand the bastards over.
What a laugh. The top 5 "revelations" turn out to be stuff we mostly already knew. Did anybody anywhere honestly think that Putin wasn't still in charge? Ditto for the "revelations" about Sarkozy and Kim Jung Il...
I'm thinking the info that Saudi King Abdul-la and his colleagues were pushing for the United States to attack Iran might be slightly more damaging than the "revelation" that Russia is a mafia state. The real damage here really isn't about the information leaked, but rather the ramifications for diplomacy and espionage going forward. Who's going to speak their mind when there's a good chance it could end up on the fucking internet? Who's going to be an informant? Who's going to share information with us? The damage in terms of dollars and human lives will be significant.
Well, I already pretty much knew about the Arab States pushing us to deal with Iran, since that's almost public knowledge that they are privately pushing for SOMEONE to take out the Iranian threat. That is the problem though, that we had our private boorish opinions aired out in public where the objects of our ridicule can see what we privately thought about them, so that if we want cooperation, we can just go bark for it! For some reason, I'm reminded of the case where a happy teen texted all her friends, bragging about her first sexual experience... and accidentally sent it to her Dad as well...
Is espionage OK only if the good guys do it? Who are the good guys? You're beginning to touch on issues of privacy and secrecy, and whether these are rights for everyone or privileges for a select few. Although I agree certain matters should remain confidential for the sake of national security, I don't like the way the scales are tilting. As I like to say, "who watches the watchmen?"
You mean diplomats say one thing and mean another? [video=youtube;6UKQHgamA-I]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UKQHgamA-I&feature=related[/video]
What really chaps my ass is shit like this statement: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40449714/ns/world_news-mideastn_africa/ Then why the hell is the guv going after the freedom of the press, speech and setting aside all the whistle-blower protection laws if it isn't hurting? persecution? duhhhh..............http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40450619/ns/world_news-europe/ Are we ready to accept posible gestapo-esque tactics? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gestapo
But under what motivation? that's what concerns me. interpol can posibly be after anyone on earth, even you or I.
When I release classified government material on the internet I won't act surprised when I'm getting boots in my face, lol. I'm not hearing stories of the government going after people minding their own business. Not to say it isn't happening, but certainly not in this story.
You have a pretty cavalier attitude towards this whole thing, MSP. What's wikileaks ever done to you?
My ears are up because the leaks are putting people in jeopardy, and I know it'll cost a lot of money to undo the damage. National pride, a sense of justice, etc.
They were interviewing some consulate personnel on BBC yesterday and they basically laughed at that. On the ground, in narrow local situations, even without a name or title the principles involved would be able to defer who the person was. I mean, if you and Bob are standing in a room and you fart, and then six months later a secret document comes out about it with Bob's name scratched out - are you going to have any doubt who ratted you out?
Random musings on the subject.... Most reports on the leaks indicate a lot of it doesn't deserve the "classified" label. The politicians complaining about this are the same people who have been telling us we have nothing to fear if we have done nothing wrong, all while wiretapping us and subjecting us to invasive airport scans and pat downs. Why the double standard? A democratic government must be the subject of scrutiny by the people from whom it derives its power. That's what I'd call transparency. We need whistleblowers to reveal ugly things to us because the media simply won't. Character assassination is standard practice when wanting to discredit whistleblowers.
I really cannot see the fear mongerings and justifications for the gestapo tactics. Hilary said herself, that it won't amount to a hill of ratshit concerning our international dealings. WTH is the big deal then? I for one, am not ready to tell the government that biz as usual is now acceptible in any way shape or form. Covering up a lie with a bigger lie is another of thousands of unsustainable acts that are done in our names.....even though we are totally unaware of what it is that may be. Diplomatic as well as administrative secrets, I do not concider an matter of national security and defense. I do however, concider a governing body that lies to it's people and conducts itself in any degree of dishonesty it wishes as a real detriment to our way of life and national security. What else are we going to be required to accept and live by and how bent are the rules going to have to be before we get nuked out of exisence by the rest of the world? If our elected and their dweebs are conducting business suposedly for our benefit in the manner that the rest of the world governments would see as a threat in the manner that we are led to believe it is, wouldn't you want to know? It is all happening in our names as Americans after all. the government doesn't perish if we cross the line, we citizens do though.
Uggg, we just keep having this discussion again and again. Still boils down to the arguments I made in the other thread. 1) Does a government need and have the right to have secrets and 2) who has the right to determine what is secret and what isn't? "Yes" and "Not Wikileaks" are the answers of course, the contents of the leaks is really irrelevant. But they are damaging, and that's something else I just can't see your way. To believe that this information coming to light isn't damaging and threatening to many, many individuals just seems naive and clueless to me.
And to believe the overblown hyperbole coming from those who have repeatedly lied to us seems even more naive and clueless to me. BTW, who grants power to the US government? Its citizens, through the Constitution.
Embassy and consulate personnel working in foreign countries have lied to me? Honestly, show me where the people being harmed here have lied to us.
